“Heh Brother! What’s all this Stuff about Religion anyway?
Straight Talk about Religion
by Steve Marquis(exceptions noted)
http://peoplespassions.org/peoplesfaith/essays/Whats_all_this_Stuff_about_Religion_anyway.pdf
Preface
Dear Readers,
Over the course of my lifetime, young people and occasionally some not so young have posed some interesting gospel topics that I had to think and ponder carefully on. I tried to capture each of those thought exercises in short easy to digest essays. A couple written by others were so profound that I could do no better than to simply include them as noted in their titles. The results of these short studies on topics that have perplexed and unnecessarily divided whole religious communities evolved into this manuscript.
Up to now, I had only given the evolving manuscript to departing LDS missionaries, as a sort of missionary pal. My general mode after all is to let the scriptures do as much of the talking as possible. Also missing are very many stories and anecdotes common to many books. That might have been suitable if this was a book centered on a particular topic, but the modus operandi of this compilation is to take a subject, simplify it as much as practical to the salient core of the matter. I felt that if a religious topic can’t be handled in only a few pages, then I will have failed.
Most folks have a hard time finding time for a whole book devoted to one topic yet they have many gospel questions. So I reasoned to digest one topic, the reader may be able to find a few minutes to digest one topic at a time.
Lastly as to style, I try to write in plain occasionally pithy language if doing so gets your attention to the point of the matter. Some might take offence at any jocular comment when discussing a serious topic about our Savior, but I remind them of my motive and the plain fact that God Almighty must certainly have a sense of humor as he made you and me! OK if you had trouble with that line, stop reading now!
A note about the author’s name: After a few decades working in the youth ministry, I found that when the youth became young adults it was very hard for them to transition from the more formal Brother Marquis (last name being a common Mormon cultural norm of this century) to the informal 1st name basis expected as adults. That being the case, I thought it might be easier if they called me by “Brother Steve” as youth. Time will tell if the transition is easier, but in the mean time it suits me. One inscription unlikely to find its way to my headstone would be “He was the same”
To you Fellow Seekers of Truth, my best wishes and may God truly bless you and keep you his.
Brother Steve
Table of Contents - Hyperlinked
Table of Contents
What’s all this “Arguing” about anyhow?
What’s all this “1 True Church” stuff anyhow?
What’s all this “Being Saved” stuff anyhow?
What’s all this “Extra Biblical” stuff anyhow?
What’s all this “Heaven or Hell” stuff anyhow?
What’s all this “I Am a Child of God” stuff anyhow?
What’s all this talk about Apostasy Anyhow? Did apostasy change the doctrines?
What’s all this stuff about “Seeing God” anyhow?
What’s all this stuff about “One God” anyhow?
Why are some folks so bent out of shape over the idea of “an Anthropomorphic God”?
How Shall We Understand the Holy Ghost?
“The Evidence of Things Not Seen”
Common Practice of Profanity (lite) in Mormon Culture?
So, What’s So All-Important About Baptism anyway?
Being a Dad in the Good Old Days Sermon
Of Church and State; Can a Christian in Good Conscience be a Democrat
What’s all this stuff about not being Christian?
A letter to a Dear Friend [Catholic]
When God reached out to one of His Sons (of my coming to Christ)
A Different Jesus? The Christ of the Restoration by Robert Millet
Is God by any other name still God?
Society’s Interest in Promoting Marriage strictly between a Man and a Woman
What do the scriptures say about homosexuality?
In Plain English, God Speaks about Homosexuality
The Heart of the Gospel; the Cause of Zion
Forgiveness and the Power of the Atonement by Jordon & Steve Marquis
Judgment in terms of scales; your Good vs. Bad deeds
Judgment in terms of scales; Jesus’ Righteousness vs. Your Efforts
What is Personal about “Being Saved?”
So, Just Who Exactly Do We Pray To?
Is Any Faith Equivalent? McKay with commentary from Steve Marquis
A Historical Context for understanding the ‘Mountain Meadow Massacre’
What’s all this “Arguing” about anyhow?
Jesus once said.
DC 64:8 My disciples, in days of old, sought occasion against one another and forgave not one another in their hearts; and for this evil they were afflicted and sorely chastened.
Jesus really spoke quite little about details of theology and he definitely would not approve of unpleasant arguing or animosity associated with preaching the gospel. He further declared that it was only through the Spirit that anyone learns or is convinced of anything; so don’t be too concerned about how sophisticated your presentation is. I remember a story of a college professor, who had entertained several sets of missionaries over some time, but it was a tongue-tied but humble Idaho farm boy that brought such a spirit to his office that his heart was finally touched.
Math 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said; Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
1 Cor 2:3 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
D&C 50: 14 To preach my gospel by the Spirit, even the Comforter which was sent forth to teach the truth.
This was really brought forth to me with clarity once on my mission to the people of Norway. We had invited a fairly elderly couple to Sacrament meeting one week and I recall being somewhat concerned what they would think about our rather noisy meetings (you know the, the rambunctious two year olds and daised parents). Afterwards, I inquired as to their experience. The gentleman replied, “that was the noisiest church service he had ever attended,” now here’s the cool part, “but I definitely felt the Lords Spirit there”. Shortly thereafter the couple was baptized! This and other similar incidences had taught me that the Lord makes up the difference for our weaknesses.
Ether 12:27 [To those who have] faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.
D&C 133: 58 To prepare the weak for those things which are coming on the earth, and for the Lord’s errand in the day when the weak shall confound the wise…
Remember even Moses had his companion Aaron to help, but it’s important to bring the Spirit of love and peace with you. This comes of how you live your life before you share the gospel.
D&C 42: 14 And the Spirit shall be given unto you by the prayer of faith; and if ye receive not the spirit ye shall not teach.
I remember an interesting story of Joseph’s early-married life where he had had some argument with his wife Emma. He had left off to proceed with translating the Book of Mormon and found he was entirely bereft of ability to discern the characters. He received understanding from God the he should first be reconciled to his companion. This he immediately did and subsequently proceeded with the translation somewhat wiser for the experience. This reminds me of Jesus’ advice:
Math 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Remember one other important covenant that you made at baptism; that you are to be a witness for Him. If in your conversations, an individual is willing to hear the truth or at least have an open hearted dialog, then great, but if the individual only wishes to have a battle of wits, then you might not want to burn the energy.
D&C
43: 15 Again I say, hearken ye elders of my
church, whom I have appointed: Ye are not sent forth to be taught, but to
teach the children of men the things which I have put into your
hands by the power of my Spirit;
Now you can’t pore water from an empty vessel. Even Jesus, in his ministry frequently quoted from existing scriptures memorized in his youth.
D&C 11: 21 Seek not to declare my word, but first seek to obtain my word, and then shall your tongue be loosed; then, if you desire, you shall have my Spirit and my word, yea, the power of God unto the convincing of men.
D&C 11: 22 But now hold your peace; study my word which hath gone forth among the children of men, and also study my word which shall come forth among the children of men, or that which is now translating, yea, until you have obtained all which I shall grant unto the children of men in this generation, and then shall all things be added thereto.
I don’t think he is asserting that you have to digest everything that he has ever said before he will reveal more to you, but I do believe he expects an effort to try and learn from the written Word.
While the accompanying articles in this compilation of essays are designed to give plainspoken explanations and support for true principles of Christ’s doctrine, God has admonished us to leave place in our communication for His inspiration. Occasionally, it may be appropriate to write out a talk, but that’s probably not the best approach in interpersonal communication.
D&C 124: 97 Let my servant … be humble before me, and be without guile, and he shall receive of my Spirit, even the Comforter, which shall manifest unto him the truth of all things, and shall give him, in the very hour, what he shall say.
D&C 100: 6 For it shall be given you in the very hour, yea, in the very moment, what ye shall say.
D&C 84: 85 Neither take ye thought beforehand what ye shall say; but treasure up in your minds continually the words of life, and it shall be given you in the very hour that portion that shall be meted unto every man.
So, I leave the reader with this comforting thought, the Lord is in this thing! That the church is the fastest growing major religious movement on earth is not the remarkable thing. It’s that its missionaries are many times ignorant and inexperienced, the speakers preaching on Sunday are seldom polished presenters and the sometimes chaotic meetings are anything but the band playing, entertainment extravaganzas of song and dance our Christian neighbors might be used to– yet they keep coming and joining themselves with us. Truly this is His work and it is a marvelous work to behold!
D&C 65: 2 The keys of the kingdom of God are committed unto man on the earth, and from thence shall the gospel roll forth unto the ends of the earth, as the stone which is cut out of the mountain without hands shall roll forth, until it has filled the whole earth.
Isa. 29: 14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
PS:
One final note: Each man walks his own path and only God is his final judge. Do not be dejected if you fail to see immediately the fruits of your proselytizing efforts. It is our job to live the gospel and to teach and invite. It is God who converts and the convert who accepts.
1 Ne. 14: 7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a marvelous work among the children of men; a work which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other—either to the convincing of them unto peace and life eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
What’s all this “1 True Church” stuff anyhow?
Jesus was being questioned by Pilot an uttered these famous words;
John 18:38 Jesus answered, … for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. Pilate saith unto him, What is truth???
Pilots sarcastic rejection of the very concept of absolute truth is echoed by many in today’s society. As a pluralistic society, the influence from Gods adversary has, in the name of tolerance of differences and promotion of “diversity”, trained up a generation with the inability to judge anything. The adversary would have us believe that there is no absolute right and thus no absolute wrong. This is the basis for the wave of moral relativism sweeping the western world.
It is actually becoming common to hear someone talk of “true for me” as opposed to simply declaring, “this is what I believe”. You might think this is splitting hairs, but it is a significant distinction. Some people indoctrinated in the religious school of diversity really believe that all systems of religion and culture are equally valid. Jesus didn’t think so. The God of the Old Testament clearly didn’t think so as He commanded the Hebrews to destroy inferior heathen societies in the “promised” land. “True for me” implies that there is no standard for truth. It thus implies there is no God; no reference that man may depend on.
The scriptures speak rather harshly about anyone knowingly preaching false doctrine - implying the importance of truth:
Gal 1:8 If any … preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
2 Pet. 1: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Certainly, people will argue about what they believe, but to maintain that any arbitrary system is equally true implies that one reject even attempting to search out God and His wisdom. The 11th Article of Faith declares:
“We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”
Notice that we respect the individuals right to believe without “respecting” the retrograde beliefs themselves. There is right and there is wrong. This does not mean that one should flaunt ones knowledge and denigrate others in the name of God. One should always be very careful to not offend ones neighbors.
Jesus spoke to this non-confrontational attitude when others, even in his own time, began setting up churches in his name:
Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
Some folks get hung up on the “One True Church” kind of language because they apply a meaning of exclusivity not intended. The saint’s testimony of the restored Kingdom does in fact assert a bold position. It declares that the whole truth and Gods authority, power and direction exists though its living Prophets and Apostles. It does NOT assert that only our prayers are heard or that truth is not found outside our borders. It has to be clear, for example, that when one church claims you must be baptized to be saved and another claims a canned prayer does the job, that both cannot contain the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
I was raised, in my early years, a member of another faith and I am grateful for the testimony of Jesus and the truthfulness of the Bible I received therein. Subsequently, I have come to know, by experience with the spirit, that God has restored his kingdom to the earth. This is a powerful message to a world starving for direct guidance from God. We believe that one can sincerely pray to God and receive confirmation to that effect. That is why our missionaries seldom do Bible bashing (Study) to “prove” the Gospel. I happen to believe, after fair study of other faiths, that it is much easier to support our understanding of Gospel principles from the Bible than any other faith, but I did not come to my conviction about the restored gospel from an intellectual sparring session; it came via prayer and experience with the spirit. I do not believe this is an exclusive opportunity.
I’d have to say one of the most damaging heresies repeated in many an anti-Mormon tract cautions the reader to avoid praying about the theology, but to trust rhetorical arguments about what the Bible is claimed to say by one debater or another.
The scriptures, on the other hand, warn against depending on “man’s” wisdom to crack this nut. Studying the scriptures is just not enough! After all, every religion has its’ scholars. They are not dummies! Look what the scriptures teach us about using intellectual arguments to prove the faith:
Proverbs 3:5 ¶ Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
2 Tim 3 1-7 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come…For men shall …have a form of godliness, but [will] deny the power thereof: from such turn away. [They are] ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth
Remember, the Jewish Sanhedrin and Pharisees were very studied in the Holy Writ, yet failed to recognize the author when he stood yet before them. Jesus chided the scholars of His day and denounced their reliance on the written word as the source of salvation:
John 5: 39 Search the scriptures!; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: [but] they are they which testify of me!
We believe that just as there was a falling a way and loss of authority to act in Gods name prior to Christ birth and that a new prophet was raised up (John) to prepare the way for his 1st coming, that after the death of the prophets and apostles called by Jesus that another falling away and loss of authority to act in God’s name occurred. This falling away was prophesied as well as the final restoration in the last days.
2 Thes. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first…
Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.
History is pretty clear that from roughly 150AD through the “dark Ages” the surviving church hierarchy suffered as predicted. Please note that God did NOT force this, but in general, man rejected the truth.
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Note the prediction of people building up systems of thought that for whatever reason appeals to them. Paul also predicts that they will not endure sound doctrine. Many of the letters making up the New Testament were in fact written to counteract false doctrine and internal corruption. While Paul and others predicted a general apostasy, they also saw that a time of restoration would come to prepare the world for the second coming of Christ, just as John prepared it for the 1st coming.
Acts 3:21 {Jesus} Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Some teach that one should not pray and expect any answer from God, but the scriptures teach quite the opposite, that dialog with God is the path to wisdom. In our time God did impart wisdom to a young man who was searching for truth. He read these words:
James 1: 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Brother Joseph was such an one who God used to restore the truths of the gospel and the power to act in his name. Lest anyone think that he has no need of the gospel to be restored, listen to the trump of an angel:
Rev. 14: 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.
Clearly, the angel had something new to add. We testify that the “everlasting gospel” is exactly what was restored. I know it’s human nature to more readily accept miracles and prophets of ages ago rather than here and now. Even Jesus had the problem, because his own town’s folk could not believe that the local carpenter could be the great prophet much less the messiah.
Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
This restoration was prophesied long ago. The restoration was indeed complete as the kingdom, as organized in Christ’s time, is upon the earth once more.
Eph 1:10 …That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 5:5 …One Lord, one faith, one baptism…
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; … For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, …
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Brother Joseph was that prophet of the restoration. The Book of Mormon and the kingdom are some of the fruits of that Tree. The beauty of this is it can be tested like any good science experiment.
1 Thes. 5: 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Moroni 10:4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things. And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is. And ye may know that he is, by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore I would exhort you that ye deny not the power of God; for he worketh by power, according to the faith of the children of men, the same today and tomorrow, and forever.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints doesn’t claim to be the only church with truth in it, but it claims to be His Kingdom on earth in the last days and to be directly led by God. It is not a democratic conclave of like-minded individuals. It is the literal fulfillment of Daniel prophesy so long ago:
Danial 2:45; D&C 65:2 The keys of the kingdom of God are committed unto man on the earth, and from thence shall the gospel roll forth unto the ends of the earth, as the stone which is cut out of the mountain without hands shall roll forth, until it has filled the whole earth.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
What’s all this “Being Saved” stuff anyhow?
Most Catholic and Protestant believers trace roots of their theocracy from the Nicene Creed dating from about 300 AD. There is an almost comical phrase therein,
“…God the Father incomprehensible, God the Son incomprehensible, and God the Spirit incomprehensible, but not 3 incomprehensibles, but 1 incomprehensible...”
Now don’t get me wrong here. The thing that’s comical is not this drivel itself, but that the adherences of this creed could be so harsh in their judgments against the Mormons, who have by contemporary standards some unorthodox views about the nature of deity. If by their own platitudes, they have no knowledge about and don’t think God can be comprehended, why be so harsh on a group that simply claims an opinion on the matter.
After all, anyone who has had more than 1 or 2 conversations with a random Christian will most likely have encountered 1 or 2 different views on just what God really is. Yet, at any of thousands of “get your salvation here” offers proffered by internet, TV shows and 1 sheet pamphlets, one will not see a long litmus test of ones gospel opinions on such matters as the price of celestial admission. No, for non-Mormons it’s usually a quite simple 3 or 4 step plan:
Believe that Jesus died for your sins. OK Ö
Raise your hand and vocalize something like this phrase Ö
"I do now accept Christ as my personal Savior". OK Ö
(This one I really like) Seek out a Christian Church and – “say buddy, can you spare a dime?” double ÖÖ
The funny thing is that if you ever get a hold of an anti-Mormon pamphlet with a “Get out of hell free” script at the end, they usually add a few ‘extra’ clauses necessary to save a Mormon. They are apparently somewhat harder to save than the average sinner.
Three Steps? What ever happened to that slick one step “death-bed” salvation plan?
Romans 10:9 "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thy heart... thou SHALT be saved".
Again please notice that the Apostle uses the future tense, “shalt be”, placing salvation in the future. I like this analogy about salvation: You’re treading water in a shark-infested sea praying for help when a ship maneuvers near to you. The captain calls out to grab onto the life ring and hold on. You believe he speaks in your best interest and so when the life ring is tossed to you, you grab a hold for dear life and thank God for being saved. Are you in the boat yet? Could you decide you prefer treading water again and let go? You can certainly declare yourself saved, but there is an element of enduring to the end.
What is the plan of salvation? Only Belief? Accept Christ? Join a Church? Pay dues every week? First, let me be quite clear, by sighting Biblical scripture, I am not trying to prove anything other that the fact that our doctrines are entirely consistent with the Bible and I think easier than most, we can present our doctrine readily there from. Other than being persuaded by sophistry, determining truth requires revelation from God, but that is another subject. (see What’s all this “Arguing” about anyhow?
Here are a few thoughts that may straighten out some of the confusion as members of God’s Kingdom converse with their Christian neighbors. Jesus and the Apostles spoke of many Mansions, and three different Heavens. Perhaps the discrepancy has to do with being saved to what? “Confess Christ with ones mouth may well gain one entrance to one of Gods kingdoms, but ones works will justly determine which! One of those works, if you can call it that, is baptism. The Church of Jesus Christ teaches that the Celestial or Highest heaven requires baptism as a requirement, but to be saved from outer darkness requires only an acceptance of Christ.
Jesus spoke directly to the ordinance to Nicodemus:
John 3: 5 “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
Some who are ignorant that Paul’s frequent usage of “Works” or “Law” is really a reference to the “Law of Moses” will say that you cannot be saved by any works; therefore they would argue that you are not saved by being baptized in water. Since Baptism as the Christians practiced it was not part of the Law of Moses, these two subjects should not be mixed up. That is the fundamental mistake.
If you had trouble with my last argument, I suppose I might just sidestep the whole question by simply asserting that Baptism is something that is done to you. All that you have to do is to receive it. The same is true with receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is a gift! It is done to you. All you must do is receive. Are you doing a work if someone gives you a gift? If this is a work then the very act of vocally accepting Jesus as your Savior or the repenting of your sins could also then be considered works.
Baptism is quite a central theme. Paul records
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost".
Seems obvious to me that if you can’t receive the gift of the constant companionship of the spirit until baptized then how might one count on living with God? (What is Heaven and Hell is elaborated in “Heaven or Hell”
When I was a young man, I read a book that dealt with Christian dogmas in early American history. I remember in it reading the official catechisms of several prominent faiths. Several of them shocked me due to their remarkably uncharitable positions. One, I set to memory so long ago, said that the
“gates of hell are lined with the skulls of little children who died unbaptized”
“Gosh,” I thought, “can reasoning folk really believe God to be so obviously cruel???” I kind of dismissed this until I knocked on a door in Norway. The man who answered seemed dumbfounded that we would waste our time preaching to a “Christian” nation when, said he, “millions of Africans die and go to hell from lack of preaching.”
You might similarly dismiss this as definitely fringe, rather than official as it once was, but I have to relate than many a “Christian” minister has taken the pulpit recently and even locally to warn their congregations of the hell waiting for the “un-saved” Mormons. The remarkable thing about such polar teachings is the incongruent assertion from many a sect that all Christian roads lead to Heaven, except that is … the Mormon road; they are going to hell for sure along with heaps of Muslims, Hindus, atheist and other assorted agnostics!
Of those religions professing Jesus, it has been my experience that for most, the egalitarian position that all churches are equivalently acceptable stops short as soon as ones proselytizing efforts robs one congregation’s coffers of parishioners (contributors). I suppose that may sound cynical, but Christ’s sharpest critics and Joseph’s as well were always those who stood to loose power and money. It truly is the Achilles heel of any religion led by a paid clergy. They are inherently unmotivated to seek truth beyond their own borders.
The Church of Jesus Christ teaches that God’s judgments are fair, accounting for a man’s desire and pursuit of truth and man’s efforts in following his conscience. It teaches that to live in heaven in God presence, each man must ultimately come to accept Christ as Savior and that one of the significant missions of the church is to offer baptism, even vicariously, to those who have passed on awaiting the promised resurrection. Surely, this is a most benevolent teaching regarding universally offered salvation and rings true with the mercy claimed to be inherent in our God.
Remember that thief, who supposedly went to heaven for his last minute confession. Is that really what happened? Remember, 3 days later, when Mary discovered Christ, he declared:
John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”
Clearly the paradise Jesus referred to was NOT the heaven that His Father dwells in as He said he had NOT been there yet. Hmm There’s another one of those pesky references to real physical places and tangible beings! (see An Anthropomorphic God) Anyway, Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not even touching how this man was judged, but Peter did add some crucial insight into the fate of the disobedient and ignorant.
1 Peter
3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for
sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to
death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirit. By which also he went and
preached to the spirits in prison. Which sometime were disobedient…
4: 6
For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they
might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the
spirit.
But what’s the point of preaching to departed spirits if they must be baptized to receive the fullness of Gods kingdom? Again, the importance of the ordinance was underscored by Paul as he spoke to the Corinthians about vicarious Baptism and the reality of the physical resurrection:
1 Cor. 15: 29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?
Most Christians don’t know what to do with this passage, but it makes perfect sense when one reconciles Gods mercy with his clear directives. Really, this is a remarkable dichotomy. The “One true Church” preaches you need not actually belong to it to ascend the pearly gates and carries out a massive effort to assist all to attain it, while those who fain offence at the mere mention of the “One true” are quick to assign the freeway to hell to oh so many of Gods precious children.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
What’s all this “Extra Biblical” stuff anyhow?
Rather than employing the brightest scholars to argue the high ground on interpreting ancient writings, the Church of Jesus Christ claims the literal restoration of Gods Kingdom, power and revelatory influence. When Joseph asked God which church he was to join, Jesus instructed that “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” Certainly, this is fulfilled as sects of various varieties tremble at the thought of adding but commentary to the holly writ. None but God’s anointed dare declare, “Thus saith the Lord”. If anyone (like Joseph) did so, then that would mean the demise of many a cleric’s profession. There is vested interest in NOT having structure and order in God’s kingdom.
Many religions, other than the Catholics, knowing they have no special authority, focus on one translation or another of the Bible as their “authority”. They do so seemingly oblivious that no two manage to actually agree on its’ contents. They often claim one cannot trust prayer and they reject the Idea of modern authoritative prophets. In Biblical times, though, the inspired writers and Christ Himself pointed out that it was not God’s way to have a divided kingdom with divers doctrines.
2 Pet. 1: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Mark 3: 25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
Ephes 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Ephes 11-14 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists, and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
I’m saying all this to set the stage for the (hopefully obvious) need for current revelation. Who can argue that we have come to a unity of faith? Surely God can speak and he says here that he will through his servants as listed above.
Now, some get all hung up on the Idea of a growing canon of God’s word, knowing little of how it came to be. 1st , we should know that the Bible literally means “Library” or “Books”. It is a collection of small-unrelated books bound together. It is not a single or monolithic book! Furthermore, there is no divine blessing ever recorded as to its veracity, or completeness save ironically in the Book of Mormon of all places! Numerous passages in the Bible refer to scriptures that were clearly considered authoritative and even worth memorizing, but are lost at this time. When scraps of the Book of Enoch began surfacing in this century, it became obvious that over a hundred passages from the lost work had been quoted in sermons and other writings of the New Testament authors. Clearly they thought this and other “lost” books of Old Testament times were very important and are mentioned and quoted from. Here is a partial list of the “Lost books”
Book of the Wars of the Lord, Jasher, Acts of Solomon, Samuel the seer, Gad the seer, Nathan the prophet, prophecy of Ahijah, visions of Iddo the seer, Shemaiah, Jehu, Paul’s missing letter to Corinth … numerous others.
Still those with a vested interest in having a free hand at interpreting the holy writ resist the Idea of real “Biblical” revelation and hang their hats on a few references found at the end of the compiled record.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
This was actually a rather common way to end a message in a time where a scribe altering a copy was a very real problem. In the beginning of the ‘Book’ of Revelations, John is told,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, what thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia;
John did send that ‘Book’ of Revelations to the seven churches and warned the scribes not to alter its contents. He did this long long before his letter ever was bound together into a collection. Funny thing is, compiled with other little books, the Book of Revelations is out of chronological order – not being the last to be written at all!
One can even find similar injunctions in the Old Testament:
Deut. 4: 2 (2-3).Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
In fact the only argument that makes any sense at all is that God directed the compilation process and embedded the rest of eternities advice into its finite pages, finally sealing it with a divine self imposed gag order. Of course the idea of gagging God is baseless in the writ and is merely a faith statement on the part of sectarians who are personally bereft of real and current revelation.
There’s always a heap of irony to go around in any discussions of these matters. I think the funniest is that the Book of Mormon is also one of the best books to misconstrue, by someone so inclined. On many subjects it contains by far the clearest declarations and explanations of key points of gospel doctrine one can find, yet like any written document, it can be misunderstood. For example, the Church teaches that ‘God’ is plural with Jesus and his Father as separate individuals, yet the Book of Mormon is far and above the best source of classic Trinitarian phases like “which is one God”. While the Church teaches that fire and torture in the afterlife is figurative and in most cases of finite duration, the Book of Mormon has plenty of talk about unending chain rattling hellfire and damnation. It just goes to show you that just about anything ever written can and will be misconstrued and screwed up.
Now this is a long preface, but I wanted to set the stage well for why it is ridiculous to assume that folks can read anything, without direct intervention from the author, and get it right. If you are still not convinced, try reading the elaborate and almost impossible to understand legal mumbo-jumbo in even a simple business contract.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
What’s all this “Heaven or Hell” stuff anyhow?
The most common misconception saints have about the 3 degrees of glory is to equate the celestial kingdom exclusively with Heaven. Joseph mentioned something to the effect that “if man knew how glorious the least of God’s kingdoms where’ they would kill themselves to get to it. It has variously been popularized that if one was judged to a lower kingdom, that the soul so damned would be eternally miserable for the lost opportunities of a higher kingdom. I believe this is a mistake. Surely, each parent wants the best opportunities for our children, but in God’s mercy, His judgments are intended to place us where we best fit and ultimately will be most happy. Damned is not equivalent to being tormented forever. It simply means ‘stopped’ or ‘limited’ as the word damned directly implies. Now, damned souls that are awaiting final judgment may indeed be tormented as the scriptures clearly illustrate with powerful language. I refer the reader to the story of Lazereth and the rich man in Luke 16:19 But for those who accept Christ’s forgiveness, if only in the spirit prison, the days of their torment are numbered. Only those souls damned to outer darkness for rejecting God with a perfect knowledge thereof with be consigned the fate of Satan and his angels. Only they will be removed completely from any vestige of Gods influence – hence outer darkness. No man knows how to describe this.
Despite the considerable enlightenment Latter Say Saints possess, since they focus their aspirations naturally on Gods greatest blessing in the Celestial Kingdom, it seams a bit of confusion lingers about the fate of the damned and the lost. One issue is whether the damned who inherit a kingdom of glory must accept Christ as savior. Can a man through torments alone atone for his own sins. The Catholics have a whole theology about the concept of Purgatory. The nearest equivalent is the Mormon “Spirit Prison”
DC
19:16-17 For behold, I, God, have
suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;But if they
would not repent they must suffer even as I;
DC 88:24 And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory.
DC 88:34 And again, verily I say unto you, that which is governed by law is also preserved by law and perfected and sanctified by the same.
DC 88:35
That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law
unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot
be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they
must remain filthy still.
This scripture makes it clear that to enter the Terrestrial Kingdom one must at some point accept the gospel and testimony of Jesus. Even your suffering only has the effect of bringing you to the feet of the savior. It does not in it self absolve you of your sin.
DC 76: 81-89 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, … These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus. These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit.
These are they who are thrust down to hell. These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.
These are they who receive not of his fullness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial; And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial. And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation. And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;
Here the speaks of his efforts to reclaim even after death those who would not accept Him in life that even those who suffered the pains of hell might yet be partakers of one of his mansions.
DC 71-74 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fullness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament. Behold, these are they who died without law; And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.
This scripture suggests that those who reject Gods messengers in full knowledge and seek not the truth are subject to outer darkness.
DC 133:71-73 Behold, and lo, there are none to deliver you; for ye obeyed not my voice when I called to you out of the heavens; ye believed not my servants, and when they were sent unto you ye received them not. Wherefore, they sealed up the testimony and bound up the law, and ye were delivered over unto darkness. These shall go away into outer darkness, where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth.
There is notion that only one with some kind of super station and exceptional situation would be able to do a proper rejection of Jesus. This is referred to as denying the Holy Ghost. This next reference is somewhat long, but there is no better explanation.
DC 76:31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.
36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;
Note: This next verse points out that all others will be redeemed. They do not earn their way to a kingdom.
38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.
39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made.
40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—
41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleansed it from all unrighteousness;
42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him;
Note: This next verse points out that all but Perdition will be saved.
43 Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.
44 Wherefore, he saves all except them—they shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment—
45 And the end thereof, neither the place thereof, nor their torment, no man knows;
46 Neither was it revealed, neither is, neither will be revealed unto man, except to them who are made partakers thereof;
Here are a few thoughts that may straighten out some of the confusion as members of Gods Kingdom converse with their Christian neighbors. Jesus and the Apostles spoke of many Mansions, and 3 different Heavens.
John 14: 2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
2 Cor. 12: 2 knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
Paul describes the resurrection with three different bodies.
1 Cor 15:40-42 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead…
Perhaps the discrepancy has to do with being saved to what? “Confess Christ with ones mouth may well gain one entrance to one of Gods kingdoms, but ones works will justly determine which of those rooms! Actually, when you put it like that, most, but not all, preachers will meet you on that point. There is just too many references to being judged by ones works to reasonably conclude other than rewards in heaven follow works.
James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
One of those works, if you can call it that, is baptism. The Church of Jesus Christ teaches that the Celestial or Highest heaven requires baptism as a requirement, but to be saved from outer darkness requires only an acceptance of Christ. Herein is a key point lost on many; It is quite possible, even likely, to be “saved” in one of God’s kingdoms in heaven and yet be “damned” from Celestial glory and ultimately exaltation with God.
Rom 8:16-18 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
The difficulty that has vexed so many in trying to find total consistency in the Bible is that many of the words can have numerous meanings; God, heaven, hell, kingdom etc all require a clear context or in some cases divine clarification! Jesus spoke directly about “Kingdom” when referring to the physical ordinance of baptism to Nicodemus;
John 3: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
When coupled with the many passages about being apparently “saved” by confession alone, this passage has so confused would be interpreters of the text that whole religious movements have split over it. For the saints, who have much more additional enlightenment from modern prophets, this passage presents no difficulty at all. It is indeed a work of sorts necessary for admission to the “Celestial” kingdom. I refer the reader to the essay on “Being Saved” for a more thorough study of this point.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the
Document
What’s all this “I Am a Child of God” stuff anyhow?
Generations of children have grown up singing songs that teach that we are of a common family. Songs like “I am a child of God” and “Jesus Loves the little children…they are precious in his sight” focus on our common heritage and intrinsic worth to God. Of the numerous Christian faiths, however, only one has any rational explanation for God’s involvement in man’s affairs. Why are we here?
One faith claims it’s a great showdown – a demo, if you will, to prove a point. But this seems like a whole lot of pain and trouble … besides, how many folks really learn from history anyway. So, that theory is pretty flat. No, most all religions just avoid trying to explain it at all. With no real reason to truly believe in the “brotherhood of Man” it’s no wonder neighbors are oft treated as strangers, strangers as enemies and nations and cultures fodder for extermination.
While most Christian sects don’t accepts that God is going to clarify such questions personally any day soon, the existing writ, generally accepted as blessed by Him does, in fact, have a lot to say, both directly and indirectly. After all God’s efforts to reveal himself to man, that Christian and Jewish sects could latch onto the idea that God is only formless spirit with no intrinsic interest in mankind has for some time mystified me. Here are a few of the comments addressing the matter in the Bible.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Note: The Bible is filled with truth. The simplest explanation is He meant what He said rather than try and turn everything into metaphors to be manipulated by the readers whim)
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. (Note: Who is the “us” and “our” ? In the Hebrew text, God's name Elohim, as in the 'us' of Gen. 1.26, refers to the Mighty Ones)
Exodus 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and [there was] under his feet as it were a paved work. (Note: Seems God is going out of His way to demonstrate a real physical presence that has all the appearance of an exalted man. Is God trying to deceive us or reveal truth to us?)
Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. (Note: Offspring is a pretty explicit term)
Luke 3:38 Which was [the son] of Enos, which was [the son] of Seth, which was [the son] of Adam, which was [the son] of God. (Note: This is a physical Genealogy)
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (Note: This was said of Adam & Eve. Whose Mother and Father were they to leave?)
Rom 8:16 … we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; … (Note: Whether adopted or born, could this be possible if we did not share in His potential? Can a dog inherit his masters potential or be considered co-equal as in “joint-heirs?”)
On that same line of thought we further read:
Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Note: Would God command that which we could never attain?)
1 Jn. 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (Note: Not only shall we see God, but we shall do so because we shall be like Him. Like Father –like son)
The Jews at the time of Jesus, like so many Christian sects today rejected the truth that we were of God’s race. Yet Jesus affirms this and uses their scriptures to prove it (paraphrasing):” Why are you making it out to be such a big deal that I called myself the Son of God when the scriptures you all preach from say that you yourselves are Gods?”
John 10: 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?”
Psalms 82:6 I have said, “Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.”
This truth, that we are the literal descendants of God, is twisted and wrung by the philosophies of men until every kind of interpretation possible is squeezed out of it except the plain and precious truth.
Jesus really went the extra mile to demonstrate to the people that He, as a resurrected being had a physical body that was very special. He said;
John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father : but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
My point here is that he clearly has a very physical body. That is completely unambiguous. It doesn’t really change the point here, but some translations read “cling to me” I do though like to add one more corroborating point that not only did he have a body at that moment, but that he did not jettison the cocoon so to speak on the way to heaven. Oh – by the way, did you catch that that heaven seems to be a place? So my extra bonus point here is that this body of his was to be presented to His Father 1st before ministering to the people and having them touch him – once again emphasizing something very important about a physical body in the resurrected state.
I can only offer that in the Westcott & Hort interlinear Greek to English translation; Word for word, it still reads clear enough”
(WH IGE) John 20: 17 Is saying to her Jesus Not of me be touching, not yet for I have ascended toward the father…
And when he was resurrected and showed Himself to his disciples, they thought he was a spirit wherein Jesus took pains to disabuse them of such a notion by actually eating and letting them feel him;
Luke 24:37:40 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.
The entire 15th chapter of Corinthians is devoted to the physical resurrection. It wasn’t until after the death of the Apostles that the Greek rejection of anything corporal took hold in the then leaderless Christian community.
What are the Negative Consequences of Mans Teachings about God? The philosophies of men teach that man has no real relationship with god. Our destiny becomes, then, much as the Greek mythologies teach - that we are the playthings or toys for the gods.
If we were truly created from nothing by an all knowing and perfect being, then that all knowing being must necessarily be responsible then for all the good and bad his creations bring about. It is no wonder with such a distorted picture of God that so many people have rejected him.
Why are these wrong philosophies promoted? The scriptures teach us that the evil one who having lost his chance to obtain the power and glory that a perfected and celestial being could attain, would out of anger and envy that none of Gods children attain that power and glory either. Nephi explains like this:
2 Nephi 2:17 And I, Lehi, according to the things which I have read, must needs suppose that an angel of God, according to that which is written, had fallen from heaven; wherefore, he became a devil, having sought that which was evil before God. And because he had fallen from heaven, and had become miserable forever, he sought also the misery of all mankind. Wherefore, he said unto Eve, yea, even that old serpent, who is the devil, who is the father of all lies, wherefore he said: Partake of the forbidden fruit, and ye shall not die, but ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.
In two grand attempts, Lucifer failed to foil Gods eternal plan for His children's exaltation. In the Garden of Eden, Lucifer petitioned Adam and then his wife Eve to partake of a fruit that would begin an inevitable destruction of their perfect bodies. He had some hopes of possessing the bodies Adam and Eve would create just as he had possessed the body of the serpent. But God put a shield between man and the evil spirits and foiled his plans at obtaining these bodies. Only those who freely give themselves could then be controlled by Satan. In rage and envy, he vowed mans destruction. Since no imperfection could remain in Gods Celestial existence, Adam and his posterity were relegated to this terrestrial sphere.
The devil, failing outright to foil Gods hope for all his children, has relegated his fiendish troops to damning us one at a time. If the devil can get us to believe that the physical is superfluous then we will not be motivated to take care of this physical body or temple that houses our spirits. Instead of learning to control the elements of this body by expanded faith, we might instead submit to control by it.
When God created the worlds he inspected the work to make sure that the will of his faith was faithfully obeyed by the elements. Our enemy has no desire for us to become like God with ultimate powers over the physical worlds. If he can get us to reject God outright by making God out to be so incomprehensible that thinking people reject him outright, then he yet accomplishes his aim against mankind. (Remember the Nicene Creed “…not 3 incomprehensibles, but 1 incomprehensible…”
I said in the beginning that I had been mystified that sects teach that God and man are ultimately only spirits and for this they hold us in open contempt. It's clearer now, I hope, why Lucifer and a host of confused parishioners want us to reject the true anthropomorphic nature of God and reject the simple truth; “I am a child of God”
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
What’s all this talk about Apostasy Anyhow? Did apostasy change the doctrines?
It is clear that without Divine direction to the apostles and prophets harmony was replaced by dissention, distortion of doctrines, heated argument and even bloodshed. A few Old Testament verses speak to that point.
Prov. 29: 18 Where there is no vision, the people perish:
Amos 3: 7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Amos 8: 11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
The pattern of falling away and restoration was repeated several times and predicted to occur yet again by the apostles prior to their demise:
2 Thes. 2: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Acts 20:29-30 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
(From http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11044a.htm)
The year 325 is accepted as that of the First Council of Nicaea The emperor began by making the bishops understand that they had a greater and better business in hand than personal quarrels and interminable recriminations.
Note in this following excerpt how instead of divine revelation to answer disputes (as say recorded in Acts 10:14) committees, lobbying, argumentation and political influences are pressed into service to define the doctrines. Rather than God telling the people His doctrines through the prophets, the people tell God what they are going to believe via political intrigues.
2 Tim. 4: 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Within a short span of a few hundred years many of the plain and precious gospel truths had been lost or distorted. At last only a few regions of the Christians championed by Arius maintained the doctrine of God as having a physical nature and having a distinct nature from His Son or the Holy Ghost.
(Again, see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm)
Daily sessions were held and that Arius was often summoned before the assembly; his opinions were discussed and the opposing arguments considered. Arian is reported to have described the Son as “a second, or inferior God, standing midway between the First Cause and creatures; as Himself made out of nothing, yet as making all things else; as existing before the worlds of the ages; and as arrayed in all divine perfections except the one which was their stay and foundation. God alone was without beginning, unoriginate; the Son was originated, and once had not existed. For all that has origin must begin to be. “
The majority, declared themselves against the doctrines of Arius. In the end the council formulated the following creed
We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten of the Father, that is, of the substance [ek tes ousias] of the Father, God of God, light of light, true God of true God, begotten not made, of the same substance with the Father [homoousion to patri], through whom all things were made both in heaven and on earth; who for us men and our salvation descended, was incarnate, and was made man, suffered and rose again the third day, ascended into heaven and cometh to judge the living and the dead. And in the Holy Ghost. Those who say: There was a time when He was not, and He was not before He was begotten; and that He was made our of nothing (ex ouk onton); or who maintain that He is of another hypostasis or another substance [than the Father], or that the Son of God is created, or mutable, or subject to change, [them] the Catholic Church anathematizes.
(Again, see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01707c.htm)
All the bishops save five declared themselves ready to subscribe to this formula, convinced that it contained the ancient faith of the Apostolic Church. The opponents were soon reduced to two, Theonas of Marmarica and Secundus of Ptolemais, who were exiled and anathematized. Arius and his writings were also branded with anathema, his books were cast into the fire, and he was exiled to Illyria.
Finally the differences turned even to bloodshed, with whole Arian communities being destroyed and with them the secrets of temple oriented worship. Recent archeological finds in North Africa find Christian communities where large number of their dead are found buried in robes and garments that Mormon temple goers would find very familiar. Finally the apostasy was complete leaving a very strange remnant indeed. Far from the knowledge of God wherein Jesus says:
John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
By about 500AD,the new Christians profess God as a mystical and unknowable. The Athanasian Creed of about 500AD still guides most of the Christian sects.
The following is the Marquess of Bute's English translation of the text of the Creed: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02033b.htm
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreate, the Son Uncreate, and the Holy Ghost Uncreate. The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Eternal and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Uncomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.
If you found that bit linguistic gymnastics a bit hard to follow, don’t worry, its not just you.
1Timothy 4:1-3 NOW the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
The good news for our time is that we live in a dispensation where God has once again, and in preparation for the second coming of Christ, restored the Gospel in its’ fullness.
Eph. 1: 10 That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
What’s all this stuff about “Seeing God” anyhow?
This is one of those obscure religious topics that produces much hoopla At first, it may surprise one that anyone would really care. What difference should it make anyhow? Is anyone’s salvation at stake whether Moses saw God as an entity or some apparition or projection of His power into a bush? Maybe not, but then again, perhaps the Father of lies, might just have a stake in such an argument. After all, a ‘unity of Faith’ as the scriptures say is hardly in the devils best interest. The scriptures preach that we are God’s children. How better to destroy us than to attack our divine origin; and with that divine origin our divine potential.
Now, there are a lot of scriptures that can be brought to bear on this topic. There are a very few scriptures that on 1st inspection might support another view. Consider these two statements from the same author:
John 1: 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
Its very seldom that the “as far as it is translated correctly” clause ought to be invoked, but this is one of them. The present translation of John 1: 18 and 1 Jn. 4: 12 is misleading; for these seem say that no man has ever seen God. Joseph’s translation clarifies that “no sinful man hath seen God”
While most Biblical scholars today acknowledge that certain passages have been various rendered and some mutated over time, many of the masses have been indoctrinated with the ‘perfect Bible’ doctrine and may have a hard time accepting that anything at all is amiss in the Holy writ. When presented with contradictions in the Bible and evidence of missing authoritative texts, such individuals will simply assert that that’s obviously not important to God and that the important things (their favorite hobby horses) have survived in tack. These individuals cannot be reasoned with on this level as they set themselves up as the arbiter of what is important and tweak the rules as the conversation progressed to maintain the desired outcome. Such individuals, however, usually allow the concept of taking all the scriptures as a compendium to build a proper understanding.
It’s important to see the events and passages as a whole. For example in this next verse before and after is an understanding that the people would not be allowed in this circumstance to see his face, but other parts of Gods physical being would be allowed to be viewed.
Ex. 33: 20 … for there shall no man see me, and live.
Ex. 33: 23 … And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
The seeming contradictory position of can you see God or no; or you can see God, but just not his face, or you can see his face, but not now… just points out that God reveals Himself variously and as He chooses. To you He may reveal His face, but for me, I might wither from afar.
Noted scriptures state that there have been many who have seen Him and even that same apostle we just quoted declares that it is our standing with God that determines if one may see Him.
John 14: 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
John 6: 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Sectarians wishing to avoid the concept of a personal connection with God might interpret these scriptures to mean that only Christ can see God. Fact of the matter is, as long as there are two minds in the world, it will be possible to wrangle two meanings, but it is just as easy to see in these scriptures man’s divine potential as to avoid it.
The understanding that man is a child of our Father in heaven and that we may become like him is like the red thread that runs though the fabric of Holy Writ. The scriptures promise that as His children we will see him because we shall be like him.
This is consistent with the many stories listed in the Bible where many men definitely saw God. The real irony here is that the same folks that obsess about not being able to see God are usually the same guys claiming that Jesus is God the Father – remember the Athanasean Creed! So two should be able play this silly game. If the claim is that ‘God’ can do the transformation thing to some form we can tolerate – like Moses or the Prophet Steven, just before being Stoned to death, why not Joseph Smith indeed!
Acts 7: 55-56 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
The Bible is a testament to God because so many people in fact saw him and said so. How it is done, one can conjecture: in or out of the body etc, but that it is done can hardly be refuted. This next scripture says that a certain group of folks have as yet not seen the Father, but refers to the fact that He does in fact have a shape to behold.
John 5: 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
This next reference talks about being caught up to the 3rd heaven and spoke of a concept that to do so as a mortal might entail actually leaving the body behind. Maybe the Children of Israel had good reason to fear seeing God in their state of unrighteousness – being concerned that they might just leave behind their mortal frame permanently!
2 Cor. 12: 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
There are references of being physically drained after encountering God.
Moses 2 And he saw God face to face, and he talked with him, and the glory of God was upon Moses; therefore Moses could endure his presence.
Moses 9-11 And the presence of God withdrew from Moses, that his glory was not upon Moses; and Moses was left unto himself. And as he was left unto himself, he fell unto the earth. And it came to pass that it was for the space of many hours before Moses did again receive his natural strength like unto man; and he said unto himself: Now, for this cause I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed. But now mine own eyes have beheld God; but not my natural, but my spiritual eyes, for my natural eyes could not have beheld; for I should have withered and died in his presence; but his glory was upon me; and I beheld his face, for I was transfigured before him.
While those scriptures were long ago lost from the Bible, the restored word gives one of the clearest pictures yet. Compare this experience with that of Joseph Smith:
JS_hist 17 … When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
JS_hist 20 …When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree,
Some religions take such umbrage over the concept of seeing God, when clearly He came and dwelt with us as the following scripture points out. It appears obvious that if God wishes to reveal himself to man, then God can figure out a way to make it possible. Maybe what really galls them is the fact that He appeared to young Joseph and not to them! Kind of reminds me of Samuel and Eli except Eli didn’t reject the Lords visitation to Samuel.
John 14: 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 1:1-2 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
That Jesus as Risen Lord indeed still had a physical body and that it was very important that he had one is demonstrated when Mary attempts to touch him.
John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
It was also very important that we knew he had a physical body. This is attested in the following scriptures and the whole 15th chapter of Corinthians:
Luke 24:36-45 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace• be unto you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them...Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
If he was only spirit, what of that charade? Jesus (God) said He had a body – not just an ethereal force. Is it so hard to just believe it? This would be my hope and prayer also, that the earnest seeker will find understanding in the scriptures. Perhaps the forgoing explanations may be of some help.
Sometime in the end, all the righteous will see their Father again. May we be counted amongst them:
1 Jn. 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as he is.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
What’s all this stuff about “One God” anyhow?
Here’s a topic that caused a lot of stir in the early Christian movement. Unfortunately for the cause of truth, the matter was solved by the point of a sword – Emperor Constantine’s to be exact - long after Christ and the Apostles had been taken from the world. Two prominent bishops of the headless fragmented church fought for their respective understandings of Deity. The main proponent of the proposition that God the Father and Jesus where separate, but totally unified in purpose – thus “one God” was Arius. By 300AD however much Greek philosophy had crept into the teachings and in the Council of Nicea, the Greek ethereal god position prevailed. All the bishops save five declared themselves ready to subscribe to a mystical formula, of three and one and much linguistic charades that that entails. Yet the majority was “convinced that it contained the ancient faith of the Apostolic Church. The opponents were soon reduced to two, Theonas of Marmarica and Secundus of Ptolemais, who were exiled and anathematized. Arius and his writings were also branded with anathema, his books were cast into the fire, and he was exiled to Illyria”
Both the Bible and especially the Book of Mormon reference the concept that Father, Son and Holy Ghost represent one God. Really. the only question at hand is whether that one God is representative of their unity in purpose or unity in very substance. – Yes, I know this bleeds into the topic: Does God even have substance? – but one topic at a time!
To argue the latter, theologians hang their apologies largely on interpretation of John 1 where Jesus is referenced as being with God in the beginning and was God.
Ironically that very exposition is one of the stronger arguments that they were in fact separate in substance but collectively God; hence [Jesus] was with God and Jesus was God. Some scholars try to make some hay over nuances in the Greek - translating it a bit more literally as … [Jesus] was with the God and Jesus was a God. (Reference Westcott and Hort) But either way you slice it, something more is going on here than just ‘Jesus was God in the beginning.’ (non-quote)
Really, to argue that God is not unity in purpose, but sometimes one and sometimes a separate and disassociated being is to make God into a schizophrenic deceiver. By about 500AD,the new Christians professed God as mystical and unknowable. The Athanasian Creed of about 500AD still guides most of the Christian sects. The following is the Marquess of Bute's English translation of the text of the Creed:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02033b.htm :For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreate, the Son Uncreate, and the Holy Ghost Uncreate. The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Eternal and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Uncomprehensible…
So according to most sectarians who promote this, God is incomprehensible and unknowable. (The essay on apostasy might be consulted if you are trying to understand how anyone could come up with something like that) Jesus went out of his way to help us understand who God was and told us:
John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
The following common passages in the Bible make such easy sense when you understand the Godhead as a unity of purpose. Conversely it requires considerable mental and linguistic gyrations to read these from the sectarian view.
Gen. 1: 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
Matt. 17: 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
John 16:25-30 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.
Note in the forgoing how excited the disciples are that Jesus is speaking plainly and they respond plainly. Isn’t is nice to just read the scriptures plainly? See how Jesus plainly addresses His Father in the next passages. Alternately, put your head through a pretzel machine to see how Jesus is really just speaking to Himself.
Luke 23: 34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Mark 15: 34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying… My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Luke 23: 46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Sectarians have clumsy explanations for why the Bible isn’t to be taken literally and simply, but it sure is a lot easier to do so. I believe God will witness this fact to the sincere seeker of truth that God is the Father of us all and Jesus is His Son. Like Jesus said just before he ascended –
John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Now, do you really think he was trying to confuse us or do you think he could have simply been uttering easy to understand truths? I vote for the latter.
I am convinced that the reason the adversary has a stake in this discussion is simply that a mystical God seems unfathomable and unreachable. Go figure as to why the devil would want God to seem “incomprehensible.” Jesus and the apostles did their best while they where yet amonst us to make God our Father real.
Acts 17: 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
Why are some folks so bent out of shape over the idea of “an Anthropomorphic God”?
Some are dissatisfied with the imperfect human condition
Many people, when they experience the difficulties of this fallen human existence, think "if only we could be loosed from the shackles of this physical existence and exist in some purely spiritual plane. I suppose we are often like youth - tired of school with its tests and demands for performance. -- With but a few years of experience, bemoan as did Peter Pan " I don't want to go to school I don't want to grow up!" Well this is only the wishful thinking of the ignorant and blinded. Those desperate to be loosed from pain or trouble are certain that the "grass must certainly be greener as a spirit on the other side of the veil." The savior reminded us, though, that the disembodied spirits hold up in a possessed man were so desperate to retain a physical embodiment that they would possess the bodies of pigs rather than be dismissed from the physical world entirely.
Why do so many reject Gods True Nature & His Relationship to Man?
After all Gods efforts to reveal himself to man, that Christian and Jewish sects could latch onto the idea that God is a spirit and man’s resurrection only a metaphor for some bodiless existence has for some time mystified me.
Lets review some of the points of scriptural references where God has revealed his nature to man.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Lets take the Bible on it’s word)
Exodus 24:9 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 10 And they saw the God of Israel: and [there was] under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone. (If it’s so important for sectarians to argue that God is a disembodied spirit, then why is God going out of his was to show that he has a body)
Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.(Offspring is a pretty clear word! Likewise we ought not to think of God as a disembodied spirit either!) (Note also that an entity called the Godhead is referenced here)
Luke 3:38 Which was [the son] of Enos, which was [the son] of Seth, which was [the son] of Adam, which was [the son] of God. (Note that this is a continuous physical lineage.)
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (This was said to Adam. Who was his Mother and Father?)
Rom. 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (If we are not of Gods lineage, could we really inherit and be joint heirs?)
Ps. 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. (Who are we to argue with God?)
Gen. 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: (Who is this us God is talking about?)
Luke 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (Why is Jesus going out of his way to verify the reality of a physical resurrection?)
Heb. 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? (A clear statement here of the dual nature of man. Can we not conclude the same about God?)
One has to do frequent and elaborate explanations and literally turn the Bible into a series of metaphors and lies to avoid the simple conclusion that we are the God’s children. The Bible is twisted and wrung by the philosophies of men until every kind of interpretation possible is squeezed out of it except the plain and simple truth that we are the literal descendants (offspring) of God.
What are the Negative Consequences of Mans Teachings about God?
The philosophies of men teach that man has no real relationship with god. Our destiny becomes, then, much as the Greek mythologies teach - that we are the playthings or toys for the gods. If we were truly created from nothing by an all knowing and perfect being, then that all knowing being must necessarily be responsible then for all the good and bad his creations bring about. It is no wonder with such a distorted picture of God that so many people have rejected him.
Why are these Wrong Philosophies Promoted?
I tell you that these are philosophies promoted by that evil one who having lost his chance to obtain the power and glory that a perfected and celestial being could attain, would out of anger and envy that none of Gods children attain that power and glory either.
Nephi explains like this:
2 Nephi 2:17 “And I, Lehi, according to the things which I have read, must needs suppose that an angel of God, according to that which is written, had fallen from heaven; wherefore, he became a devil, having sought that which was evil before God. 18 And because he had fallen from heaven, and had become miserable forever, he sought also the misery of all mankind. Wherefore, he said unto Eve, yea, even that old serpent, who is the devil, who is the father of all lies, wherefore he said: Partake of the forbidden fruit, and ye shall not die, but ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.”
In two grand attempts Lucifer failed to foil Gods eternal plan for His children's exaltation. In the Garden of Eden, Lucifer petitioned Adam and then his wife Eve to partake of a fruit that would begin an inevitable destruction of their perfect bodies. He had some hopes of possessing the bodies Adam and Eve would create just as he had the body of the serpent. But God put a shield between man and the evil spirits and foiled his plans at obtaining these bodies. Satan, then, could control only those who freely give themselves. In rage and envy, he vowed mans destruction. Since no imperfection could remain in Gods Celestial existence, Adam and his posterity were relegated to this terrestrial sphere. Nephi teaches that if we had remained in that state we would have become as the devil and subject to him.
2 Nephi 9:8 “O the wisdom of God, his mercy and grace! For behold, if the flesh should rise no more our spirits must become subject to that angel who fell from before the presence of the Eternal God, and became the devil, to rise no more. 9 And our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself;
The devil, failing outright to foil Gods hope for all his children, has relegated his fiendish troops to damning us one at a time. If the devil can get us to believe that the physical is superfluous then we will not be motivated to take care of this physical body or temple that houses our spirits. Instead of learning to control the elements of this body by expanded faith, we might instead submit to being controlled by it. When God created the worlds he inspected the work to make sure that the will of his faith was faithfully obeyed by the elements. Our enemy has no desire for us to become like God with ultimate powers over the physical worlds. If he can get us to reject God outright by making God out to be so incomprehensible that thinking people reject him outright, then he yet accomplishes his aim against mankind.
As a historical note, the true nature of God was widely held by many of the Christians until about 300AD when the religion was converted from being persecuted to being sponsored by the state. (see essay on apostasy)
I said in the beginning that I had been mystified that sects teach that God and man are ultimately only spirits and for this they hold us in open contempt. It's clearer now, I hope, why Lucifer and his confused followers want us to reject the true nature of God.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
How Shall We Understand the Holy Ghost?
After Adam and Eve left the Garden of Eden, they began to till the earth and work at other tasks for their living. They had many children, and their sons and daughters also married and had children. Thus, spirit children of our Heavenly Father began leaving his presence to come to the earth as they had been promised. As they came to earth, the memory of their heavenly home was taken from them. But our Father did not shut them away from his influence. He sent the Holy Ghost to comfort and help and guide all of his spirit children.
Moses 5:4-11 And Adam and Eve, his wife, called upon the name of the Lord, and they heard the voice of the Lord from the way toward the Garden of Eden, speaking unto them, and they saw him not; for they were shut out from his presence.
And he gave unto them commandments, that they should worship the Lord their God….And Adam was obedient unto the commandments of the Lord.
An angel of the Lord came and taught Adam and Eve the plan of salvation.
And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son and to teach Adam and Eve the gospel.
Through the power of the Holy Ghost, Adam “began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God”. And because of the witness of the Holy Ghost to Eve, she said, “Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient”
It is evident in the first days of this earth’s existence our dependence on the Holy Ghost was vital and necessary.
But who is the Holy Ghost - Let’s look in John;
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.
The Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead. Doctrine and Covenants 130:22 says that the Holy Ghost is a spirit that has the form and likeness of a man and that he can be only one place at a time, but his influence can be everywhere at the same time.
DC 130:22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
Remember the account of Jesus walking on water or when the resurrected Lord appeared to the disciples in the closed room. Each time, Jesus had to convince them that He was in fact NOT just a spirit saying:
Luke 24: 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Yet, without divine revelation to clarify these things, some have stumbled in their understandings of this. There are many facets of what we call God, but if we isolate just one facet and presuppose that represents the entirely of God, we are going to err substantially. For example: even though we have just read how Jesus dramatically and emphatically declared that he was not just spirit, one need just flip to John to read:
John 4: 24 God is a Spirit: (note: in this instance that the apostle does clarify in the next breath that) they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
This is like the blind boy who encountered an elephant and 1st felt his long nose and concluded that the elephant must be like a snake. Unlike the Athenasian creed, memorized in theological seminaries the world over, which declares that God is quote “…not three incomprehensibles, but … one incomprehensible,” we declare, as the writer in John did, that God is knowable:
John 17: 3 …this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
We often use the term Godhead to describe the unified nature of God. Paul used this term when he wrote:
Acts 17: 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
Jesus was very clear about this concept that he acted in complete concert his Father.
John 5: 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
This is also true of the Holy Spirit, a key member of the Godhead. Jesus said:
John
14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and
he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him
not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall
be in you.
So when Jesus uses phrases like,
John 14:20 “I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you,”
it is the unity of the Godhead that makes that a sensible statement. Since the Holy Spirit acts, along with Jesus, in complete harmony with the will of the Father, the influence of the Holy Spirit in others extends this principle of unity even to angels and his prophets. He declared:
D&C 1: 38 … though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.
In Revelations an angel appears to John, yet the angel speaks in 1st person as if he were the Lord Jesus. The nature of the Godhead has been variously revealed to man. To the Israelites exiting the pantheon of Egyptian and pagan gods, few such details were revealed. But to others, earnest seeker of truth, He is willing to reveal more of Himself.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Only a few thousand ever saw Jesus; but a handful His angels, even fewer the Father. The Holy Ghost, then, is the principle means for the Godhead to influence man. He is the comforter in times of trial or sorrow. He is the light that inspires and is the revealer of hidden knowledge. He is the testifier of the Christ and the means to soften our hearts to accept Him as Savior.
We have a sure promise to all mankind who earnestly seek God, that through the power of the Holy Ghost, truth will be revealed.
Moroni
10:4-5 And when ye shall receive these
things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the
name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a
sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the
truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
Just as Jesus promised Peter;
Matt. 18:18 Verily I say unto you, “Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
He also promises us that when we enter into the covenant of baptism that he, through the laying on of hands, will grant a special gift of the Holy Ghost, where the striving saint may expect the Lord’s influence as more that a fleeting experience, but as a daily indwelling of the Holy Spirit’s influence.
D&C 8: 2 Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.
It is imperative that we maintain our lives in a state of striving for good and repentance, for the Almighty declared:
And he that repents not, from him shall be taken even the light which he has received; for my Spirit shall not always strive with man, saith the Lord of Hosts. (D&C 1: 33)
But this promise comes with a warning that:
A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him. (D&C 130:23)
Let us all ask ourselves, as Alma did to his people so long ago, this question and then act accordingly:
(Alma 5:26-34)
26 And now behold, I say unto you, my brethren, if ye have experienced a change of heart, and if ye have felt to sing the song of redeeming love, I would ask, can ye feel so now?
27 Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God? Could ye say, if ye were called to die at this time … that your garments have been cleansed and made white through the blood of Christ, who will come to redeem his people from their sins?
33 Behold, he sendeth an invitation unto all men, for the arms of mercy are extended towards them, and he saith: Repent, and I will receive you.
34 Yea, he saith: Come unto me and ye shall partake of the fruit of the tree of life; yea, ye shall eat and drink of the bread and the waters of life freely;
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
Jesus’ Advice by the numbers?
Consider this mathematical concept that relates key human behaviors in a gospel context. It begins with the basic concept of a desire for some fairness in some aspect.
Listed are a few examples, though the concepts are extensible to many others:
Remuneration ($)
Revenge
Forgiveness
Work or Chores
Favors
…..
The equation is most enlightening:
We begin by a simple inequality and then expand with more refinements that improve the modeling. Consider the following example with chores (C) as the main variable. If you felt that each person should share an equal load, then as long as your(y) workload is less than or equal to others(o) then a sense of equity is maintained
Cy <= Co
If you have a sense of Altruism(Ay) are willing to do some percent of excess and still feel OK about the arrangement then we modify the equation as follows:
Cy <= AyCo
For example if my Ay is 2 ie I am still OK working 2x as the other.
Cy <= 2Co
This means that as long as I am working no more than twice as hard as the other person, then I am still OK with that and my sense of equity is still maintained.
Then, (THIS IS KEY) we must acknowledge that the natural man often Perceives(Py) his own contributions in excess of actuality(> 1), whereas we can never know or Perceive(P) the real extent of others work. I, for example can seldom appreciate all the work my wife does unless I was bird-dogging her all day long. Therefore my Perception(Po) of her work will always be less than 1. Therefore, perceived equity (from your perspective) is achieved when we modify the equation as follows:
CyPy <= AyCoPo : Where Py>>Po
This means that since your perception of your own work generally exceeds reality, you need to work harder than what you perceive to be equitable to in actuality just hold your own end up. Conversely, since the other actually works harder than your perception could ever likely reveal, they would have to work far harder than would actually be equitable before you ever perceived them as pulling a fair share of effort.
The actual relationship of Py=PkPo might easily have a Perception(k) value of 2-10; mine is probably around 5. Substituting above we get:
CyPy <= AyCoPo ; Py=PkPo
Cy(PkPo) <= AyCoPo
CyPk <= AyCo
Cy <= (Ay/Pk) Co
As an example:
If my perception ratio Pk is 5 and my Altruism factor Ay is 2 then
Cy <= 2/5Co then
Cy 2.5 <= Co
Forget the altruism part and you get
Cy 5 <= Co
This means that the other person would have to actually work 2.5 – 5 times harder than me before I ever likely perceived that they were pulling their fair share!!!!
Consider the implication for forgiveness. This means if the same ratios held, you’d have to forgive the other person 5 times more than seems ‘tit for tat’ before actually achieving equity. No wonder Jesus told us not to judge, forgive without limit etc.
See Mathew 7.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
“The Evidence of Things Not Seen”
Brigham Young University-Idaho Devotional
January 27, 2004
Robert L. Millet
Some time ago I sat in my home ward and listened with much interest as four children moved to the front of the chapel and in turn bore their testimonies. The first one could not have been more than seven years old, and yet she spoke with a confidence that one might expect from a seasoned adult member of the Church. She said, essentially, “I want to bear my testimony that I know that the Church is true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and that President Gordon B. Hinckley is our living prophet today.” She then shared some personal feelings and sat down. I pondered on her words, on the depth of sincerity evident in her voice, and I wondered: Does she know? Does she really know? How much could she know? Later during the day I reflected on the experience and had affirmed to my mind and heart that little children can come to know the things of God, by the power of the Spirit of God, (1 Corinthians 2:11-14) and can speak words of truth and wisdom, just as their adult counterparts can (Alma 32:23). A testimony is not something you either have or don’t have, but rather an impression of the Spirit as to the truthfulness of eternal things, an inner awareness that ranges along a spiritual continuum from a simple peaceful feeling to a perfect knowledge.
It has wisely been observed that the strength of this Church lies not alone in the powerful witnesses of the fifteen men we sustain as prophets, seers and revelators, but rather the deep reassurance and resolve that rests in the souls of individual Saints of the Most High from Alabama to Zanzibar. A testimony may begin through trusting in and relying upon the witness of another, of one who knows for sure; to believe on the faith of another is indeed a spiritual gift, a gift that can lead to eternal life (Doctrine and Covenants 46:13-14). And yet surely each one of us desires to possess our own witness, an independent knowledge of the reality of God our Father, the redemptive mission of Jesus the Christ, and the divine call of Joseph Smith and the work of the Restoration.
It was President Heber C. Kimball that warned us of a test to come, a test that would separate out those who professed membership in the Church but did not possess a personal testimony sufficient to see them through hard times.
“The time will come when no man or woman will be able to endure on borrowed light,” he said. “Each will have to be guided by the light within himself. If you do not have it, how can you stand?” (Orson F. Whitney, Life of Heber C. Kimball Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1973, 446, 449-50).
Faith in the Unseen
A few years ago a Baptist minister friend and I were driving through Boston in an effort to get to the LDS Institute of Religion at Cambridge. As has been my custom most every time I have been to Boston, I was absolutely lost and had no idea where we were. We stopped several times for directions, and each helpful person would point to us the way and say with much assurance “You can’t miss it.” After having heard that phrase five or six times, I asked our seventh helper for directions and began my question with “Please don’t say you can’t miss it, because I assure you that we can, for we have done it again and again.” During our scavenger hunt of sorts, we chatted. My colleague commented on a matter that we had discussed several times, namely the idea that Latter-day Saints are more prone to rely upon feelings than tangible evidence for truth of religious claims. In response, I asked: “Do you believe in the literal bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ?” The look he gave me was similar to that which a sixteen-year-old would give to someone who had asked what the teenager felt to be an inane question. “Of course I believe in the resurrection, Bob; I’m an ordained minister.” I followed up: “Why do you believe in the resurrection? How do you know it really happened?” He answered: “Because the New Testament teaches of the resurrection of Jesus.” I shot right back “But how do you know that the New Testament accounts can be trusted? How do you know the Bible can be trusted? Maybe someone just made all of this up. Maybe the Bible is a giant hoax.”
“No,” he said, “There is strong evidence to support the truthfulness of the Bible.” “Like what?” I asked. “Well, there are archaeological, historical and cultural evidences that what is being described actually happened.” I then queried. “And so that’s how you know the resurrection is real?”
“Yeah, I suppose so,” he said. At this point my mind began to race. And I found myself saying something I hadn’t planned to say. “You know, I feel a great sense of sadness right now.” My Evangelical friend was surprised and asked “Sadness? Why are you sad?”
“I was just thinking of a good friend of mine, an older woman in Montgomery, Alabama.” My partner asked: “What about her?” I then said, “Well, I was thinking of how sad it is that this wonderful and devoted Christian, a person who has given her life to Jesus and studied and memorized her Bible like few people I know, a woman whose life manifests her complete commitment to the Savior, is not really entitled to have a witness of the truthfulness of the Bible.”
“Why is that?” he followed up. “Well, she knows precious little about archaeology or languages or culture or history or manuscripts, and so I suppose she can’t really know within her heart that the Bible really is the word of God.”
“Of course she can,” he said. “She can have her faith, her personal witness that the Bible is true.” I pulled off to the side of the road and stopped the car. I turned to him, smiled, and stated: “Do you mean that she can have the power of the Holy Spirit testify to her soul that her Bible is completely trustworthy and can be relied upon as God’s word?”
“Yes, that’s what I mean.” My smile broadened as I added: “Then we’ve come full circle.”
“What do you mean by that?” he asked. I said: “You’re telling me that this good woman, one who has none of the supposed requisite background or knowledge of external evidence, can have a witness of the Spirit, including deep personal feelings about the Bible and that those feelings are genuine and heaven-sent.” At that point my friend looked into my eyes and he smiled. “I see where you’re going with this.” We then engaged in one of the most productive conversations of our time together as friends. We agreed between us that it is so easy to yield to the temptation to categorize and pigeonhole and stereotype and even demonize persons whose faith is different than your own. It is so easy to overstate, to misrepresent, to create “straw men” in an effort to establish your own point.
We agreed that “traditional Christians” and Latter-day Saint Christians both base their faith upon evidence—both seen and unseen. While saving faith is always built upon that which is true, upon an actual historical moment in time, upon something that really existed in the past, true believers will never allow their faith to be held hostage by what science has or has not found at a given time. I know, for example, that Jesus fed the 5,000, healed the sick, raised the dead, calmed the storm, and rose from the dead—not just because I have physical evidence for each of those miraculous events (because I do not), nor even because I can read of these things in the New Testament, which I accept with all my heart. But I know these things actually happened because the Spirit of the Living God bears witness to my spirit that the Lord of Life did all the scriptures say he did, and more.
A prominent historian of religion, Randall Balmer, has written:
I believe because of the epiphanies, small and large, that have intersected my path—small, discrete moments of grace when I have sensed a kind of superintending presence outside of myself. I believe because these moments . . . are too precious to discard, and I choose not to trivialize them by reducing them to rational explanation. I believe because, for me, the alternative to belief is far too daunting. I believe because, at the turn of the twenty-first century, belief itself is an act of defiance in a society still enthralled by the blandishments of Enlightenment rationalism. . . .
Somehow, I don’t think Jeffrey [who asks how he can know there is a God] wants me to rehearse the ontological, the teleological, and the cosmological arguments for the existence of God. . . . So instead of dusting off the teleological argument, I think I’ll remind Jeffrey about Karl Barth, arguably the most important theologian of the twentieth century. Toward the end of his life, after he had written volume after volume on the transcendence of God and the centrality of Jesus, Barth was asked to sum up his work. The good doctor paused for a minute and no doubt looked out the window and played with the stubble on his chin before responding with the words of a Sunday school ditty: “Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so” (Growing Pains: Learning to Love my Father’s Faith (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Brazos Press, 2001), 34, 61-62).
Many years ago on a Sunday morning I opened the door and reached down to pick up the morning newspaper when I saw beside the paper a plastic bag containing a paperback book. I brought both inside and laid the newspaper aside as I browsed the paperback. The cover was a lovely picture of a mountain stream, but the title of the book revealed to me what in fact the book was all about—it was an anti-Mormon treatise. Many of the arguments in the book against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were old and worn-out ones, dead horses that have been beaten since the days of E. D. Howe. Latter-day Saints had responded to the issues posed scores of times, but they continued to crop up. One section of the book did prove, however, to be of some interest to me. Let me paraphrase what was essentially said about 130 pages into the text. The author pointed out that eventually two Mormon missionaries would come to the reader’s door. If they do come, he pleaded, don’t let them in. If, however, you do let them in, then don’t listen to them. If they are allowed to tell you about their message, about Joseph Smith and angels and golden plates, they will ask you to kneel and pray about the truthfulness of these things. Whatever you do, don’t pray! The writer then made this unusual observation: In ascertaining the truthfulness of a religious claim, there are three things a person can never trust: (1) your thoughts; (2) your feelings; (3) your prayers. I was all ears at this point, wondering how we could ever know anything. I didn’t have to wait long, for the writer then noted that the only thing that could be trusted was the Holy Bible itself. I shook my head and felt a deep sense of sadness for the author, for I wondered how indeed a person could even know of the truthfulness of the Bible if he or she could not think, feel, or pray. I had a collage of feelings at that moment. As indicated, I felt sad for the writer, for it was obvious that he could not see the blatant inconsistency and irrationality of his own words. I tried to put myself into the place of a reader who was not a Latter-day Saint and wondered how I might feel upon reading such things. To be honest, I would feel insulted, knowing that I could not be trusted enough in my pursuit of truth to rely upon my mind, my heart, or even the most tried and true method of obtaining divine direction—prayer itself.
An Evangelical Christian colleague, Craig Blomberg, once observed:
“You know, it’s ironic: The Bible considers it praiseworthy to have a faith that does not require evidence. Remember how Jesus replied to doubting Thomas: ‘You believe because you see; blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.’ And I know evidence can never compel or coerce faith. We cannot supplant the role of the Holy Spirit, which is often a concern of Christians when they hear discussions of this kind.
“But I’ll tell you this; there are plenty of stories of scholars in the New Testament field who have not been Christians, yet through their study of these very issues have come to faith in Christ. And there have been countless more scholars, already believers, whose faith has been made stronger, more solid, more grounded, because of the evidence—and that’s the category I fall into” (Cited in Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Zondervan) 1998), 52-53).
In writing of faith in the unseen, a Roman Catholic New Testament scholar, Luke Timothy Johnson, explained:
“Belief in the existence of God is already an act by which one ‘entrusts’ oneself to a world that is not entirely defined by what can be seen and counted, heard, and accounted for.” Further: “Christians need to begin by insisting, first of all to themselves, then to each other, and finally to the world, that faith itself is a way of knowing reality. They need to insist that faith establishes contact with reality in a way different from, but no less real than, the very limited (though, in their fashion, extremely impressive) ways of knowing by which the wheels of the world’s empirical engine are kept spinning.” As an illustration, “If religion can hold as true only what is ‘within the bounds of reason,’ and if ‘reason’ is defined in terms of the empirically verifiable, then the resurrection is excluded by definition. But if the resurrection is excluded, why should Christians continue to revere Jesus, who is then only one of many figures from antiquity worthy of attention and honor?” (The Creed: What Christians Believe and Why It Matters (New York: Doubleday, 2003), 45, 101, 180).
True believers will always be challenged by those who refuse to see. In a very real sense, believing is seeing. No member of the Church need feel embarrassed when they cannot produce the golden plates or the complete Egyptian papyrus. No member of this Church should ever feel hesitant to bear testimony of those verities that remain in the realm of faith, that are seen only with the eyes of faith.
Elder Neal A. Maxwell has written:
“It is the author’s opinion that all the scriptures, including the Book of Mormon, will remain in the realm of faith. Science will not be able to prove or disprove holy writ. However, enough plausible evidence will come forth to prevent scoffers from having a field day, but not enough to remove the requirement of faith. Believers must be patient during such unfolding” (Plain and Precious Things (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1983), 4.).
Similarly, President Ezra Taft Benson pointed out:
“We do not have to prove the Book of Mormon is true. The book is its own proof. All we need to do is read it and declare it. The Book of Mormon is not on trial—the people of the world, including the members of the Church, are on trial as to what they will do with this second witness for Christ”
“We are not required to prove that the Book of Mormon is true or is an authentic record through external evidences—though there are many. It never has been the case, nor is it so now, that the studies of the learned will prove the Book or Mormon true or false. The origin, preparation, translation, and verification of the truth of the Book of Mormon have all been retained in the hands of the Lord, and the Lord makes no mistakes. You can be assured of that.” (A Witness and a Warning (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1988))
President Gordon B. Hinckley put things in proper perspective when he taught:
“I can hold [the Book of Mormon] in my hand. It is real. It has weight and substance that can be physically measured. I can open its pages and read, and it has language both beautiful and uplifting. The ancient record from which it was translated came out of the earth as a voice speaking from the dust. . . .
“The evidence for its truth, for its validity in a world that is prone to demand evidence, lies not in archaeology or anthropology, though these may be helpful to some. It lies not in word research or historical analysis, though these may be confirmatory. The evidence for its truth and validity lies within the covers of the book itself. The test of its truth lies in reading it. It is a book of God. Reasonable individuals may sincerely question its origin, but those who read it prayerfully may come to know by a power beyond their natural senses that it is true, that it contains the word of God, that it outlines saving truths of the everlasting gospel, that it came forth by the gift and power of God.” (Faith: The Essence of True Religion (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1989), 10-11.)
We place a great deal of emphasis in this Church—as we should—upon the singular role of the Book of Mormon, of its vital place in our own witness of the overall truthfulness of the restored gospel. In the meridian of time, the resurrection of the Master stood as the physical evidence for the Savior’s divine Sonship, the tangible witness that Jesus was Lord. Either he rose from the dead, as he said he would, or he was a fraud and Christianity was a giant hoax. So with our own dispensation: the Book of Mormon stands as the tangible evidence of a spiritual reality—that God has spoken anew in our day; has made known his mind and will and purposes through Joseph Smith and his prophetic and apostolic successors; that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is in deed and in fact the kingdom of God on earth.
Recently President James E. Faust told the story of a Latter-day Saint lecturer at London University, Joseph Hamstead.
Brother Hamstead once spoke to a group at the university of the LDS faith, including its youth and family programs. One of those in attendance responded as follows: “I like all of this, what is being done for families, etc. If you could take out that bit about an angel appearing to Joseph Smith, I could belong to your church.” Hamstead retorted: “Ah, but if you take away the angel appearing to the Prophet Joseph, then I couldn’t belong to the Church because that is its foundation” (Personal correspondence to James E. Faust; cited in Faust, “Lord, I Believe; Help Thou Mine Unbelief,” Ensign, November 2003, 19-20).
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland has written:
“To consider that everything of saving significance in the Church stands or falls on the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and, by implication, the Prophet Joseph Smith’s account of how it came forth is as sobering as it is true. It is a ‘sudden death’ proposition. Either the Book of Mormon is what the Prophet Joseph said it is, or this Church and its founder are false, a deception from the first instance onward. . . . Joseph Smith must be accepted either as a prophet of God or else as a charlatan of the first order, but no one should tolerate any ludicrous, even laughable middle ground about the contours of a young boy’s imagination or his remarkable facility for turning a literary phrase. This is an unacceptable position to take—morally, literarily, historically, or theologically.”
Elder Holland went on to explain:
“If Joseph Smith did not translate the Book of Mormon as a work of ancient origin, then I would move heaven and earth to meet the ‘real’ nineteenth-century author. After one hundred and fifty years, . . . surely there must be someone willing to step forward—if no one else, at least the descendants of the ‘real’ author—claiming credit for such a remarkable document and all that has transpired in its wake. After all, a writer that can move millions can make millions. Shouldn’t someone have come forth then or now to cashier the whole phenomenon?” (Holland, Christ and the New Covenant (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1997), 345-47.)
With this in mind, perhaps we can better appreciate why Joseph Smith stated simply:
“Take away the Book of Mormon and the revelations, and where is our religion? We have none” (History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 vols., ed. B.H. Roberts (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 2:52).
While we seek to make friends and build bridges of understanding with persons of other faiths where possible, we do not court favor, nor do we compromise one whit on what we believe. Some doctrines, like the doctrine of “only true and living church” (D&C 1:30), by their very nature, arouse antagonism from those of other faiths. Would it not be wise to avoid or at least downplay such divisive points? Perhaps, some say, we should consider focusing on matters we have in common and put aside, for the time being, the distinctive teachings of the Restoration. Elder Boyd K. Packer declared:
“If we thought only in terms of diplomacy or popularity, surely we should change our course. But we must hold tightly to it even though some turn away. . . .
“It is not an easy thing for us to defend the position that bothers so many others. But, brethren and sisters, never be ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Never apologize for the sacred doctrines of the gospel. Never feel inadequate and unsettled because you cannot explain them to the satisfaction of all who might inquire of you. Do not be ill at ease or uncomfortable because you can give little more than your conviction. . . .
“If we can stand without shame, without hesitancy, without embarrassment, without reservation to bear witness that the gospel has been restored, that there are prophets and Apostles upon the earth, that the truth is available for all mankind, the Lord’s Spirit will be with us. And that assurance can be affirmed to others” (Conference Report, October 1985,104, 107).
The Significance of a Matter
In the end, the only way that the things of God can and should be known is by the power of the Holy Ghost. These things are what the scriptures call the “mysteries of God.” Another way of stating this is to suggest that the only way that spiritual truths may be known is by the quiet whisperings of the Holy Ghost. How did Alma the younger know? Was it because he was struck to the ground by an angel? Was it because he lay immobile and speechless for three days while he underwent a confrontation with himself and his sinful and rebellious past? No, Alma knew as we know: he may have undergone a serious turnaround in his life through the intervention of a heavenly messenger, but the witness that drove and directed this magnificent convert was the witness of the Spirit. In his own words,
“Behold, I testify unto you that I do know that these things whereof I have spoken are true. And how do ye suppose that I know of their surety? Behold, I say unto you they are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God. Behold, I have fasted and prayed many days that I might know these things of myself. And now I do know of myself that they are true; for the Lord God hath made them manifest unto me by his Holy Spirit; and this is the spirit of revelation which is in me” (Alma 5:45-46).
On the other hand, we can come to sense the significance of a spiritual reality by the loud janglings of opposition it engenders. For example, what do the following locations have in common: Portland, Dallas, Atlanta, White Plains, Nashville, Denver, Stockholm, and Ghana? Clearly in each of these places the announcement that a Latter-day Saint temple was to be built there brought opponents and even crazed zealots out of the woodwork. If I did not already know by the quiet whisperings of the Spirit within me that what goes on within temples is true and is of eternal import, I just might sense the significance of the temple by the kind of opposition that seems almost to flow naturally from those who refuse to see.
Consider another illustration. Why is it that so many people throughout the world write scathing books, deliver biting addresses, and prepare vicious videos denouncing the Book of Mormon? What is it about black words on a white page, all of which are uplifting and edifying, that invite men and women to come unto Christ and be perfected in Him, that would arouse such bitter antagonism? Once again, if I did not already know, by the quiet whisperings of the Spirit, that the Book of Mormon is truly heaven-sent and indeed Another Testament of Jesus Christ, I would recognize its significance—its power to settle doctrinal disputes, touch hearts, and transform men and women’s lives—by the loud and hostile reactions people tend to have toward it.
Hugh Nibley, one of the greatest minds of this dispensation, a defender of the faith throughout his life, stated:
“The words of the prophets cannot be held to the tentative and defective tests that men have devised for them. Science, philosophy, and common sense all have a right to their day in court. But the last word does not lie with them. Every time men in their wisdom have come forth with the last word, other words have promptly followed. The last word is a testimony of the gospel that comes only by direct revelation. Our Father in heaven speaks it, and if it were in perfect agreement with the science of today, it would surely be out of line with the science of tomorrow. Let us not, therefore, seek to hold God to the learned opinions of the moment when he speaks the language of eternity” (The World and the Prophets (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book and F.A.R.M..S., 1987), 134).
Conclusion
I have learned a few things as I have learned a few things over the years. I thank God for the formal education I have received, for the privilege it is (and I count it such) to have received university training. Education has expanded my mind and opened conversations and doors for me. It has taught me what books to read, how to research a topic, and how to make my case or present my point of view more effectively. But the more I learn, the more I value the truths of salvation, those simple but profound verities that soothe and settle and sanctify human hearts. I appreciate knowing that the order of the cosmos points toward a Providential Hand; I am deeply grateful to know, by the power of the Holy Ghost, that there is a God and that he is our Father in heaven. I appreciate knowing something about the social, political, and religious world into which Jesus of Nazareth was born; I am deeply grateful for the witness of the Spirit that he is indeed God’s Almighty Son.
I appreciate knowing something about the social and intellectual climate of nineteenth-century America; I am grateful to have, burning within my soul, a testimony that the Father and the Son appeared to Joseph Smith in the Spring of 1820, and that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is truly the kingdom of God on earth. In short, the more I encounter men’s approximations to what is, the more I treasure those absolute truths that make known “things as they really are, and . . . things as they really will be” (Jacob 4:13; compare D&C 93:24). In fact, the more we learn, the more we begin to realize what we do not know, the more we feel the need to consider ourselves “fools before God” (2 Nephi 9:42).
Those who choose to follow the Brethren, believe in and teach the scriptures, and be loyal to the Church—no matter the extent of their academic training or intellectual capacity—open themselves to ridicule from the cynic and the critic. Ultimately, doctrinal truth comes not through the explorations of scholars, but through the revelations of God to apostles and prophets. And if such a position be labeled as narrow, parochial, or anti-intellectual, then so be it. I cast my lot with the prophets. I am one who sincerely believes that education need not be antithetical to conversion and commitment; it all depends on where one places his or her trust. “True religion,” Elder Bruce R. McConkie testified,
“deals with spiritual things. We do not come to a knowledge of God and his laws through intellectuality, or by research, or by reason. . . . In their sphere, education and intellectuality are devoutly to be desired. But when contrasted with spiritual endowments, they are of but slight and passing worth. From an eternal perspective what each of us needs is a Ph.D. in faith and righteousness. The things that will profit us everlastingly are not the power to reason, but the ability to receive revelation; not the truths learned by study, but the knowledge gained by faith; not what we know about the things of the world, but our knowledge of God and his laws” (Conference Report, April 1971, 99).
I know, as I know that I live, that God lives, that he is our Father in heaven, that he has a body of flesh and bones, and that we are created in his image. I know that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and that he was crucified for the sins of the world. I know that through genuine, godly sorrow for sin, we can have our garments washed in the blood of the Lamb and enjoy peace and happiness here and eternal glory hereafter. I know that Joseph Smith was and is a prophet of God, a covenant spokesman for Deity, the preeminent prophetic revealer of Christ and the plan of salvation, the one called to stand as the head of this final gospel dispensation; through his instrumentality, precious doctrinal truths and divine, saving authority have been restored to the earth. Further, my witness is current. I know that Gordon B. Hinckley stands in the shoes of Brother Joseph, that he holds the keys of the kingdom of God in their fulness, and that it is our privilege to live at a time when prophets and apostles walk the earth. This Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is in the line of its duty, and it is preparing a people for the second coming of the Son of Man.
These things I know. I have come to know them by the same means and in the same manner that Peter knew that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16-17). My knowledge of things spiritual, like all true faith, is based on evidence that is not seen. I chose to believe, and in the process I came to see, to know. At the same time, I possess what the apostle Peter called a reason for the hope that is in us (1 Peter 3:15). That is to say, my witness is as satisfying and stimulating to my mind as it is settling and soothing to my heart.
God grant that you and I, as a peculiar or a purchased people, may cleave unto Him who is the Truth; that our total trust, our complete confidence, and our ready reliance will always be in Him; that our lives will reflect more and more what we know and believe; and that we will “shew forth the praises of him who hath called [us] out of darkness into his marvelous light” (1 Peter 2:9).
Back to Top of the Document Speech by Robert L. Millet
“A More Sure Way to Hell”
To those who struggle; a word of advice and warning:
Caution: Those who leave “the fellowship of the ring” come to ruin - remarkably they generally followed same “7 Step plan for misery”.
- Something was not going well in some interpersonal relationship, typically their spouse. Their pride was hurt or someone failed them. Church attendance did not seem to fix the problem right away and represented a significant effort.
- To justify bagging the effort, they began to look for fault in church members or church leadership.
- Simultaneously, they began to look after some (any) alternate life philosophy that would justify embracing or tolerating pleasurable intoxicating sins; drugs, sex etc.
- Then, they toy then embrace destructive habits or lifestyles that dull the mind but temporarily gratify the body.
- Too often, they loose their spouse/family.
- Painfully common, their children become lost either to alcohol, drugs and lawlessness or their children abandoned them for their own betterment.
- Lastly, the promise of exaltation with God slips away.
There is but one straight and narrow road. All others lead to hell starting with the one of our own making.
Jesus said to take up your cross and bare it for his burden is light.
He did not say there was no burden, but it is definitely light by comparison to Satan’s “balloon plan.“ The Devil’s burden seems light, as a hot air balloon, until he pops the bag leaving his hapless followers to crash – and great is their fall.
For those who are hoping that God is a Sugar-Daddy doling out on our schedule good times for good behavior, I might recommend a review of the prophets lives. Paul’s wife died when he was yet a young man. Numerous prophets were stoned to death for their efforts, Lot’s wife so loved the sinful environment of her community, she turned back to her death even while God was leading her out to safety. Joseph Smith endured trial after trial from sources external and close to home; even from his wife who oscillated from humble support to nagging caustic harangue.
It is not always clear to man as to the mind of God. He only expects us to plod on his path, doing our best with what we have rendering 10 fold or 50 or 100 fold depending on our several abilities, but not comparing our success with another’s. Recall the story of Zion’s Camp when the Lord told Joseph to rescue the embattled saints in Missouri that they marched under hash, harsh conditions a 1000 miles to come within striking distance of their enemy only to be told to return home. Some were furious and questioned God and the Prophet. Some rejected one, others both; why after all would God command us to do such an arduous journey only to fail? But many grew in strength from that effort, became refined from the trial, grew in faithfulness and became the key pillars of leadership that held the church and brought the kingdom to safety in the west after the prophet’s death.
I am reminded of a family who really struggled with failures. The husband sometimes struggled as a breadwinner and their large family of children were almost all catastrophes, choosing bad friends, lawless behaviors, drugs and sex over God. I worked with some of her kids and I can tell you they were a plague. In the time frame I knew this family, one child was eventually murdered and several were in and out of jails; then they moved. Some years later I received this note:
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Dear Friends,
In our hearts you will ever be our friends! For so many years we shared with you our never-ending catastrophes and continual crisis-but undying testimony. Now, we want to share our good fortune, unbelievable blessings and still undying testimony.
After we moved to Idaho we got involved in the business of working with teenagers who have A.D.H.D and who are struggling with life. We have a year-round outdoor program and a year-round residential academic program for these teenagers. We also do foster care in our home. The rewards are so great as we see families reunited and lives put back together again.
We have witnessed these very same things in our own family. Our oldest son... was re-baptized this summer. He and his wife are planning a temple sealing this next summer... They are both Psychology majors. Our next three oldest sons are all currently serving missions [around the world]. We only have four children left at home; ...
Yes, all of these children that were the source of our greatest sorrows are now the source of our greatest joys. We think that even [our daughter’s] death was part of the plan. Because, now, we are so dedicated to helping other families, so dedicated to sharing the gospel, and so dedicated to the work of the temples.
She concludes:
It is heaven on earth to us. We hope that it is the same for you...With much love and best wishes for you and your families.
Stay the course, keep the faith, finish the race. That is what God requires. That is what will bring us peace and in the end exaltation. We cannot do wrong and feel right. We cannot turn from the light that God has given us and see but darkness. Even if we cannot see the whole way, yet walk within the short patch of light at our feet. Stay, hold to that light.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
Common Practice of Profanity (lite) in Mormon Culture?
In actual practice, Latter Day Saints have more compliance with God’s lifestyle commandments than is generally the case in “Christian” societies. This is born out in such studies as Soul Searching: The Religious and Spiritual Lives of American Teenagers, by Oxford University Press…. Their demonstrated goodness, relative to the world, which surrounds them, creates a stark contrast. Yet generally LDS people eschew accolades to that effect; being taught to avoid the appearance and actuality of pride and personal comparisons. So it is that some LDS may be tempted to brush with, but not indulge in, off color language or behavior to avoid, perhaps subconsciously, the “dread” label of ‘Molly Mormon’ or the like. Generally, Mormons have a reputation for eschewing all forms of profanity, but I believe a growing minority of saints have begun a dalliance with what I’ll call profanity-lite. It hurts the individual and damages the churches reputation.
In the category of off-color language, “c..p” would have to be the favorite tolerated language of those Mormons who indulge followed closely in popularity by various profane modifiers such as “Holy c..p.” For the most part this kind of profanity is not seen as such by those who use it. Yet, when Mormons are taught and take a moment to address the topic few would argue for its usage nor would they likely use such language in the presence of respected Church leaders.
When comes the usage of forms of expletives? To emphasize a point, people who lack other linguistics means, might use some out of context word from one of two categories; Extreme regard and/or Extreme disregard. In the category of “Regard” you typically find to reference to God, Religion and/or Mother. A few examples are; Holy Smokes, Jesus, Holy Mother of God etc (note below: Holy is one of God’s names) In the category of Disregard you find references to Hell, Damnation, sexual impurity, excrement etc.
For the most extreme emphasis or outright shock value, the clever user of profanity will directly juxtaposition words from both categories. Mormon version: Holy C..p. NonMormon version: Holy S..t.
Certainly more benign, but rooted from a common vein are found other people who also lack better linguistics skills, but whose moral upbringing precludes the more extreme proscribed language. These have developed a whole vocabulary of curse-lite word; words that sound very similar to the “forbidden” words;
friken, flippin, dang, dag blasted, shoot etc.
In some cases the words are oh so close to their more shocking counterparts, where as others are safely removed from the true curse words they may have derived from so as to be generally acceptable.
From my read of the Scriptures, it appears that God does not want us to mix into our daily speech any such profane speech. Rather we should use language to precisely describe things as they are. I.e. If we are hurt the response is “Ouch” or such. Likewise, the only time to use language such as c..p is when we need to explain what we are scraping off our shoe.
Listed below is some of the doctrinal basis for avoiding profane speech:
Lev.
21: 6; They shall be holy unto their
God, and not profane the name of their God
Lev. 20: 3; And I will set my face
against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he
hath … profane[d] my holy name.
Moses 6: 57: Wherefore teach it unto
your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise
inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in
his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is
his name.
Math 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old
time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine
oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is
God’s throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for
it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy
head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is
more than these cometh of evil.
Lastly the 13th Article of Faith declares that Latter Day Saints should be pursuing lovely and virtuous things. So I leave that datum as the standard to judge against. If your language or actions can pass that muster, then I’m sure you are in good shape. If not, then quit making excuses and find some other way of expressing your thought. – or maybe – just maybe don’t express it at all for as our mothers used to say, “If you cant say something nice, then don’t say anything at all!”
Article of Faith 13: We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
So, What’s So All-Important About Baptism anyway?
Sermon given by Steve Marquis at the baptism of Hiram Morrell 11/5/05
When announced, Enter Wearing mud caked - filthy overalls & cowboy hat
To Latter Day Saints, baptism is central, the gate to the Celestial Kingdom with God.
It’s waters symbolize a washing – a renewal where we enter the waters to be cleansed of sin and emerge a new man.
3 Nephi 27: 19 And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.
<Remove filthy overalls and position laid out on the ground with your hat>
Baptism can be likened to a washing were we shed the filth of our sinful tendencies and replace them with a determination to follow Christ, strengthened in our resolve to do so by His Holy Spirit.
Do you recall the death of a loved one or perhaps even a pet: The waters of Baptism are always at ground level such that Baptism also symbolizes death; in this case the death of the sinful tendencies. Then, when we are raised out of the water by a man ordained of God we then see therein the future resurrection of the body and also the creation now of a new man - free from any desire to sin.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
My baptism into this Church was one of the highlights of my life. My family had just converted to the Church, but I was not quite 8 yet so I had to wait a few months. I remember the day of my baptism vividly. To be baptized, I went to the old Stake Center, as our building was just being constructed and the font was not completed.
As I looked around the room at the people gathered, I was surprised to see a classmate from school – also dressed in white and also my teacher from school. I came to know that day that I was joining the Kingdom of God and that I would not be alone on this journey.
Nevertheless, I also came to know that the journey was not like an effortless bus ride to the pearly gates – more like a Mt Climb with encouraging companions. Like any climb, to end up on the right peak, you have to start out on the right trailhead. Baptism, in the right place, by someone representing the Lord. is the gate to that trail. Climbers on the Lord’s trail carry rope so that if someone amongst them stumbles and falls, he can be caught before he really hurts himself. Each one of us promises that we will bear each other’s burdens.
Mosiah 18: 8 … as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another’s burdens, that they may be light;
9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life.
10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?
11 And now when the people had heard these words, they clapped their hands for joy, and exclaimed: This is the desire of our hearts.
We had done an activity at the Morrell home some time back where I let Hyrum dangle from a rope slung over some rafter beam and then let the whole family try and hoist him in vain, but when he could climb a ladder, then the family could take up the slack and protect him- this of course spoke to our individual duty and efforts on the one hand for our own salvation and on the other our duty in the kingdom to support our brothers.
<Cut off a small section of climber’s rope and give to Hyrum>
This is to remind you that this journey requires effort and desire – you cannot be pulled and dragged into heaven. The church and fellowship is there to help you but you have to do the walking and it equally there for you to be able to help others.
Now, my father who had been baptized just a few months before had recently been ordained a priest and was able to baptize me. One of the folks baptized that day was not totally immersed, and so the ordinance was repeated. This was necessary because, as we just read, “baptism symbolizes cleansing, death, burial, and resurrection and birth, and this only can only be represented by immersion.”
The Savior also taught us that all men and women must be born again. Nicodemus, one of the rulers among the Jews, asked Jesus what should one do to inherit life with God.
John 3:2 “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
3 Nicodemus was bewildered and asked: “How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?”
Jesus explained that He was talking about being born spiritually. He said:
4 “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
So Baptism also represents the birth of a new creature. From this day forth you will not be the same – your eternal life was bought at a price – hence you are not your own but willingly follow a master who we will serve all of our lives – not out of force, but out of our desire to be like Him.
Alma 5:14 And now behold, I ask of you, my brethren of the church, have ye spiritually been born of God? Have ye received his image in your countenances? Have ye experienced this mighty change in your hearts?
A story is told of the son of King Louis XVI of France. As a young man, he was kidnapped by evil men when they dethroned the king. For six months he was exposed to every filthy and vile thing that life had to offer, yet he never buckled under the pressure. This puzzled his captors, and they asked him why he had such great moral strength. His reply was simple: “I cannot do what you ask, for I was born to be a king” (see Vaughn J. Featherstone, “The King’s Son,” New Era, Nov. 1975, 35).
You were born to be a son of a King. By being baptized, you have been promised the blessings of royalty. Knowing who you really are should make a difference in your determination to realize that destiny.
When my son, Jared, your old Sunday School teacher, was about to depart for war, his commander spoke to the departing soldiers and their families saying, “The thing that will get you though this is your faith in God and the training we’ve given you.”
You have goodly parents and loving friends and church leaders who will give you the training to prepare you for the battle. And the battle is very real for the hearts and souls of men. It is being fought right here at home at your school and in our community, The Lord needs strong men and women to stand up and be counted. That is what being called a Christian is all about – not shrinking from the fight, but defending Christ with boldness in word and deed.
May your faith grow and carry you safely and victorious.
In Jesus’ Name – Amen Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
Does God Wear a White Coat?
A silly silly response with a serious message.
I work in a high tech industry where a fellow coworker posted a Doonesbury cartoon which sarcastically dressed down President Bush for questioning the religion of the left (science mingled with pseudo-science).
It's an interesting anachronism, considering it's origins embraced "Question Authority" but thinking a bit more, it occurred to me that all the left has done is to replace God as The authority with a community of ‘the’ intellectuals; trading the white robes for white coats as it were. When the Oracles speak we must all bow or be branded heretic or worse 'for those who worship their own intellect" a simpleton.
When Reagan correctly pointed out that the lion share of summer haze was due to trees and natural vegetation decay, the sarcastic hoot and holler of "Cut me down before I kill again" dismissed any serious discussion and that - followed up by rounding anyone else spouting such nonsense to the public flogging.
There were no Doubting Thomas’s amongst The Union of Concerned Scientists as they demanded without proof that the "linear" model for radiation exposure be the "faith statement" of the pious and unbeliever alike; Booming from the media pulpit, “better to pay a tithe of high energy prices to men in white coats than risk the ultimate damnation of death by cancer” - The parishioners shudder and pay the dues to the deacons of non nuclear society.
Global Warming is prophesied as the just torment of the careless -- damned to roast in bare cracked deserts of their own making. Heretic scientists (in sheep’s clothing) are burnt at the media stake for noting that Mars and even Pluto are showing similar climate change in sync with the sun's vacillating displeasure. "Silence ye fiends!" or worse "Ye ignorant fools."
The evolutionists hold the seer stones to the past - conjuring up estimates of ancient carbon concentrations to be held as sacrosanct as life itself... Ahhh changed daily. Yes well, after all, the Theory of Change is Law and in due obeisance no “Physics Today” article would be proper without beginning with the catechism, "This changes our fundamental understanding of..." God hath spoken it! and who should doubt his word - spoken even by His mouthpiece, Aaron of the Holy Order of the White Coat.
The parallels between the new faith and the old are astonishing. But sadly, the new religion beats on the consciences of the new parishioners with the same old rod - fear; the former with fear of eternal death or damnation and the latter with near term death and disease.
But at least in the former, man had an eternal destine and importance. With the “New” Faith, man is reduced to complex reactive action potentials (C.R.A.P.). Oh dear, I sense a Columbine coming on from one of the new faith believers - but, don’t worry; after all, your worry is just C.R.A.P. You'll get over it and then you'll STOP (Systems Terminated - Offline Permanently).
Then praise them, those valiant Oracles in white coats. May they function long as they search for the Rosetta stones certain that in the finding they will finally be able to decipher the ultimate meaning of STOP.
Oops time to go. I hear the University Bells announcing call to meeting.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
Being a Dad in the Good Old Days Sermon
by Steve marquis 6/18 2006 Snoqualmie Congregation.
(Holding up the scriptures) The words of our forefathers captured in this writ tell poignant stories of relationships of fathers and their sons. I have written many letters to my own sons – one day maybe they’ll let me publish them – You see. that’s what much of these scriptures are – and the most memorable ones are like good campfire stories; trouble conflict and resolution sometimes happy and sometimes sad. You can be assured of one thing – there is nothing new under the sun.
Few if any of us, rich or poor, escape this life without trials and if its commiseration you want – you’ll have good company snuggling up to this for bedtime consolation.
Take Lehi for instance – the perhaps eccentric, definitely visionary prophet with at best begrudging - tentative respect to extremes of life-threatening rebellion of his older sons.
And then there’s old Eli – You remember the High priest with his two rascals for sons who would shake down the temple goers. Can you imagine that instead of blessing the sacrament, if the Bishop’s son, and his gang would rough you up in the hall lift your tithing envelops and womanize instead of worship at the Temple grounds?
Or what about Abraham – some members of this congregation, sadly, may have had some part of their life injured by abuse of one form or another. Abraham’s apostate dad tried to have him offered up as a blood sacrifice. That’s some serious abuse.
And then there’s Joseph – starting off married life with the potential embarrassment of an out of wedlock pregnancy and personal betrayal who nevertheless stepped up to the role of step dad.
It’s so easy to excuse our own struggles raising children and at once be critical of some figure whose whole life story is condensed to a few pages. Old Eli is a great case. He is best known in the scriptures as the High Priest that failed to reign in his sons. He is the favorite whipping boy for permissive parenthood. I got some taste for the complexity of these matters when as a 15 year old, my son took my truck past our private road to joy ride up Lake Alice. Coming down, he lost control and totally destroyed the truck and knocked himself silly. To claim with insurance the loss of my new truck meant I’d have to file with the police a stolen car report against my son – which I did not do. Suddenly Eli’s dilemma, where his sons lives could be forfeit, took on new dimensions; a complexity that merits some empathy.
I do agree with the classic “lessons learned” that settings standards and sticking to them is imperative, but now I am less likely to rush to judgment against another parent with troubled teens. Raising children is a complex business and while there are definite effects from the nurture environment, I have every reason to conclude that much of our children’s response is innate and God’s judgments on our children will not be flawed due to a parent’s imperfection.
Does it make sense that Mr. Joe Visitor’s eternal destiny is dependent on how well Brother Marquis preaches today. If anything, these stories teach us is that if someone is going to go bad, it will not matter how good the family environment. Likewise, some will overcome all no matter how bad the circumstance. Like cream in fresh milk from the cow – some children just rise to the top – aka Abraham who became the great prophet and patriarch. Conversely, I’ve often wondered if God doesn’t send sometimes his most head-strong cases to certain homes to truly give them the best shot.
In engineering, there is a concept called the natural response. To determine the natural response you drive the system with an impulse function. This is exactly how a tuning fork works. You whack it with an impulse and it rings as its own natural frequency response is revealed. (Whack tuning fork)
While in any Gospel Doctrine class you are sure to hear Eli get a drumming of critique, I had struggled for some time feeling that Lehi could have done this or Lehi could have said this or why did he roast Lamen and Lemuel publicly – couldn’t he have--- what if he had spoken privately, what if, what if.
The fact of the matter was that all Lehi & Sariah’s children got basically the same loving environment but some chose a different path. The opening line speaks volumes. “I Nephi having been born of goodly parents.”
I learned some wonderful things from Dad like patients in adversity, duty to God as exemplified in Scouting and dedicated care to others. Was he perfect; of course not – sure he was human, but I can say he really tried to do right by us and 4 of 5 children are married to this day in the temple and all his children’s children are active in church, still married and love the Lord. Shall I stand in judgment because of my one prodigal brother or just maybe I should dispense from playing God and shew forth mercy and hope knowing God Loves all his children.
Back to Lehi; those campfire stories told of events of their lives; getting the plates, constructing and sailing a ship, struggling for food etc were all impulse functions as God tested the metal of their characters. Those stories show that the prophet was a man with some faults and weaknesses, but they also show that God’s hand is outstretched individually to each of His children and individually each man or woman will walk though those pearly gates and stand before God to answer.
Standing there blaming some mistake your parents made won’t mitigate the judgment because God’s mercy will already have accounted for life’s innumerable handicaps.
So the take away here is to stop blaming your hardships and rise like the Cream God intends and claim your salvation and exaltation with God and Christ.
What I learn from this whole complex is that God is the judge. All will be taken into account in the judgment. Neither our children’s salvation nor their exaltation is in our hands – they are in the hands of our Lord Jesus. Only our own salvation and/or exaltation is under our direct choice.
God expects each one of us to do our best to be good parents or goodly children. We will be judged on our works, but one needed fret over a son or daughter’s heavenly reward –
My children’s future is in God’s capable hands. Remember he is the father of us all and that should provide peace.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
Of Church and State; Can a Christian in Good Conscience be a Democrat
A follow-up letter and additional commentary regarding a sermon delivered by Steve Marquis Dec 2005 Snoqualmie LDS Congregation.
Dear Friends
My comments and testimony last month inspired some questions afterwards in the hallway. Let me 1st try and refresh what I intended to convey. Don’t hold me to order; its tough enough to remember the content!
- Our political institution is uniquely God inspired. This makes involvement in politics a matter saintly duty.
- I related my recent involvement protesting the ex-presidents negative effect on our nations morals and admonished the saints to be involved to the extent they were able, not necessarily to my extreme, but to do something.
- We should be actively involved in the process as Mosiah implored. He taught that it is not common for the majority of the people to choose evil, but if they do, then amen to that society.
- Recent significant elections have been decided by only a single % point in many states. [This general statement can be applied to many congressional and senate races. It was also true in the election of the presidency. The God inspired genius of our regionally elected system gives the states power to elect the president, Not the popular vote. This is analogous to the regional power of the senate. Numerous state elections turned on 1 or 2 % points, which in turn decided the national elections.]
My point – your single vote counts!
- While I made no mention of a particular party, I implied that good barely outvoted evil in recent elections. Resolving that vagueness is left as an exercise for the student. (This claim would definitely not be true if applied to WA state elections)
Now that’s all I said, and I stand by those comments as within the scope of the stated teachings of the brethren. My comments were intended to provoke our thoughts and hopefully action to the cause of public righteousness.
If you would like to explore the questions about party affiliation posed in the hallway, I’ve prepared an outline and brief of my thoughts. If not – simply toss the next few pages and this note should be considered the end of my response.
Yours in the Kingdom,
Steve
Church and State
Let me get to the root of what I gather may have been the concern. I didn’t couch the questions in this clarity when I spoke, but one brother inferred them - so lets examine them.
· Can a faithful Christian be a member of the Democrat party?
· Can a faithful Christian be a leader or elected representative in the Democrat party?
· Can a faithful Christian vote for a Democrat.
Before I address these specific questions, let’s gather a little bit of background on the church and politics.
In the Mormon churches’ early days in Kirkland, Missouri, Illinois and Deseret, the saints tended to vote, publicly so, as a block. Among other things, this caused a great deal consternation on the part of the political parties. Switching from one party to another did not alleviate the problems, as neither party trusted the Mormons to be in their pocket. In other words, they were not easily manipulated as they took their major influence from the church hierarchy – not the party bosses. There was much government-sponsored persecution aimed at breaking the church as a theocracy.
With Utah becoming a state, the church wanted to avoid the previous criticisms and assured that a 2 party system would succeed, literally designated the left side of a congregation one party and the right side to other party!
The 1st senator from the state of Utah, an apostle, was refused a seat and sent packing back to Utah – elected or not. The next election, Reed Smoot, son of polygamists came to Washington. With Roosevelt’s help and the famous speech from a fellow Senator (“I would rather sit with a polygamist who wont polyg than with a monogamist that wont manog”) he retains his seat.
From those days and true until the 1950s or so, issues of morality did not play any significant role in state or national politics. Differences were largely confined to fiscal and international policies.
In the 50’s and 60s the Democrat south was largely against civil rights for blacks. The civil rights act of 64-65 was carried by the majority of Republican support.
By the end of the 1960s and into the 70s the Democrat party swung radically to embracing social politics of dependency. This scheme begins to build a dedicated voter block amongst any identifiable group. If a group could be identified and justified to be one that Government $ can be funneled, then a circular dependency was exploited.
I bring this “dependency” point up in this context because a key unique LDS doctrine comes into play.
The Democrat party preaches that society should guarantee (control) the outcome of all personal behavior (unless you are in the communal elite). Therefore, any personal failure of an individual becomes an indictment to the process that (by their way of thinking) should have educated, monitored and completely controlled that individual’s behavior. Every one is a victim in need of the party’s protection.
This is, in fact, one of the fundamental differences between what I call the social-crats and the conservatives; individual responsibility, VS the communal control. This expresses itself in a variety of issues from fighting tort reform, attack on the second amendment to our military situations like the Abu Grad prison.
It should not be lost on the student of LDS philosophy, the Mormon understanding of Lucifer as one who wanted to guarantee that none would fail. His process would assure to that. Naturally, to accomplish that - all power, authority and glory would be invested in him (the devil).
The most important dependency cycle of all is the control the public schools by fighting all forms of competition (vouchers). The Democrats have enjoyed the fruits, across the nations, of the unionization of teachers. They also affect the teaching of major issues via the NEA. Influencing the next generation to be sympathetic to Democratic Party issues is crucial for party survival. But just what are those Democratic Party values that touch on moral issues? I think it would be exceptionally difficult to claim that the Democratic party faithful & platform in any way aligns with church teachings.
At least these questions should be examined carefully for any candidate.
Public Acknowledgement of Deity
10 commandment displays
National Motto – In God we Trust
National Anthem
US supreme Court call to order
Prayer in schools
Football games, Commencement
Prayer in public
Military colleges
Senate - City meetings
Homosexual “Rights”
Defense of Marriage Amendment
Abortion policy
Notification of Parents
Permission of Parents
Medical Disclosure requirements
“Cooling off” requirements
Infanticide (Partial Birth abortion)
Pre-marital Sex
Pregnancy prevention
Condom distribution in schools
Death Penalty
2nd amendment rights (the right that guarantees all the other rights)
Government dole
Pornography
Library policy
Internet filtering
Women in combat
Women in the workplace
Other issues???
So – back to the key questions.
· Can a faithful Christian be a member of the Democrat party?
Certainly. A classic political scheme is to vote in primaries for the better (or occasionally - deliberately for the worst) of two candidates and then to vote in the final election for a member of the opposite party. Many LDS people feel they can affect some good – especially at the local level by staying involved in both major parties. It is harder to avoid, though, the appearance of association with evil given the current Democrat party platform. This is a tough one of late as the parties have begun to strongly align themselves on moral issues. There has begun to be crossovers/defections in both directions. The ability to appoint goodly judges has been substantially hurt this last few year by one stealth republican defecting to the democrats.
· Can a faithful Christian be a leader or elected representative in the Democrat party?
In the traditional Democrat south and religious communities like Utah – yes. The support base is so strong that national political $ cannot oust popular officials, but make no mistake that key leadership position and party dollars will not be available to such a rare non-party line Democrat. Looking at the record of various key telling votes, there are precious few such examples.
· Can a faithful Latter Day Saint (or Christian) vote for a Democrat.
Certainly, if the alternative was worse or the Democrat in question fit the rare mold outlined above.
As I have tried to point out, times have changed and the parties have taken clear positions on moral issues that LDS people should take special note of. The church recently commissioned a poll of LDS folks to determine our level of involvement in the voting process. It was determined that if we (1) actually voted and (2) voted for a common cause or candidate, our numbers were sufficient to swing elections.
Now I am perfectly aware that there are some Republican scoundrels and some Republican party positions that do not represent the moral positions as squarely as I would like, but this pales with the moral turpitude espoused by the vast majority of Democratic candidates and codified by a party platform that could only be inspired from the depths of hell.
Lastly, there are some fringe candidates who have no chance of getting voted into office that I could cast my vote for, but I have to decide if I want to be able to effect the situation and how best to do that. Perhaps in the South or Utah, there may be some rare shining light in the Democratic sea of darkness worth elevating to office, but in most states and ours, in particular, the moral distinctions are so clear, that to vote for a Democrat for anything higher than dog catcher is to deny ones faith. The Catholic bishops have it dead right when they announced recently that elected officials supporting abortion in their policies should not be granted communion. Multiply that by the dozen or so other moral issues, where the Democrats align with the dark side.
So if, you detected an inference to a particular party in my testimony, I can only hope that you were not alone and that God pricks the hearts of all those good men and women who have in times past simply done nothing.
When you consider affiliating with a party, remember that you are known by the company you keep.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
What’s all this stuff about not being Christian?
by Steve Marquis.
One of my young friends once lamented about how his Christian friends at school berated him for belonging to a church which they insisted did not believe in Christ. “I explained that we did believe in Jesus,” but his friends were not persuaded by his argument that the Church is named after Jesus.
I have long been of the conclusion that the LDS success as a evangelical organization is at the root of this stubborn opposition. These opponents feign offence at our bold assertions regarding revelation and priesthood authority and are quick to condemn our knowledge so derived. While claiming no revelation for themselves, they take a stance that our Christ is not THE Christ (as they define him) and therefore we are not “Christians.” This is all the more ironic considering the expressed lack of understanding and definition offered by their own ranks.
Most Catholic and Protestant believers trace roots of their Trinitarian theocracy from the Nicene Creed dating from about 300 AD. Consider the base catechism espoused by nearly all Catholic and protestant derivatives.
“…God the Father incomprehensible, God the Son incomprehensible, and God the Spirit incomprehensible, but not 3 incomprehensibles, but 1 incomprehensible...”
By their own “clear” catechism, these folks claim not to be able to comprehend God. For a group to be so offended by another’s opinion of the God Head while spouting off such is astounding hypocrisy. This is all the more troubling in light of Jesus’ own pronouncements of the importance of knowing him.
John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
The Church of Jesus Christ declares that Jesus of Nazareth is the Savior of mankind, who took upon him the sins of the world and in a miraculous experience we call the atonement experienced our troubles in a way that allows him and him only to transform our lives so that when we see him we will be like him. The cleansing of our sins is not just a whitewash, but a transformation where we no longer have desire to sin – else heaven would be populated with evil smuggled in behind the cloak of Christ.
1 Jn. 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is
The Church of Jesus Christ further declares that each person is entitle to his own revelation as to the Godhood and mission of Christ and his kingdom on earth which is led by Prophets and Apostles who receive His word for the governance of the Church and the benefit of mankind.
Math 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said; Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
The Church of Jesus Christ furthermore takes the same stance toward our fellow Christians as our master espoused long ago in Jerusalem. Jesus spoke to this non-confrontational attitude when others, even in his own time, began setting up churches in his name:
Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
With that charitable attitude, we fight against none but those who espouse evil and invite all to come and learn about Christ and experience His salvation and join in building up His kingdom on earth.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
Keys to Temple Preparation
by Steve Marquis.
Dear [Freind]
I was thinking about you and felt impressed to write a note to you, not as a church leader for which I am not, but as a brother.
I was talking to my sons in Family Home Evening about the temple and how we often talk about going to the temple as ‘an event’. Sometimes we may be tempted to think of our activity in general in God’s kingdom as checkboxes Ö - “well done that! What’s next?” I wanted to help them understand that the gospel and in particular, the temple is even more so a place of learning, communion with God and Covenant making; a place where God in turn grants us an endowment of knowledge, power and ultimately exaltation with Him.
This endowment is alluded to in D&C 132: 19 (abbreviated)
And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife…by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise…it shall be said unto them—Ye shall …inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then … it shall be done unto them in all things …in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fullness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
And referenced again in DC 121:45:46
…then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven. The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever.
Among other things, the temple covenant and associated endowment involves the basic lessons taught by the prophets of old.
The Law of the Gospel teaches us Love and Repentance and Forgiveness.
The Law of Chastity teaches us the sacred nature of the creative powers and to reserve it strictly for within the covenant of Temple Marriage.
The law of Sacrifice, as taught in the old testament for instance, (like the story of Abraham and Isaac) teaches us to be willing to give all to God; to put Him 1st above all things. I would like to elaborate somewhat on this point. Consider the Apostle’s response to the call of Jesus.
Matt. 4:19-22 And he saith unto them, “Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.” And they straightway left their nets, and followed him. And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them. And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.
Luke 9:59-62 And he said unto another, “Follow me.” But he said, “Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.” Jesus said unto him, “Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.” And another also said, “Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.” And Jesus said unto him, “No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”
Joseph Smith once said that "a religion that does not require the sacrifice of its members will not have the power to save them." In an age where imposters clothed in black robes with folksy drum and rhythm bands promote ‘microwave salvation’ and ‘drive up window communion’, the Kingdom of God preaches the simple message of repentance, sacrifice and through priesthood ordinances sets the people of God on the road to salvation and exaltation.
This is very much in contrast to what the world teaches us – especially our young women; The idea that you can “have it all”. The reality is, in life, there are always trade-offs. Sometimes we have to leave one good thing to reach for that which is more excellent.
DC 10:10 And verily I say unto thee that thou shalt lay aside the things of this world, and seek for the things of a better (part).
Mathew 6:32-33 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Notice that in one sense we learn to put God 1st; Football, Rock climbing, etc, even education and jobs come a distant 2nd. Yet we learn that putting our striving for God 1st does in no way leave us destitute as to our physical needs and desires. When we put God truly 1st, He in turn blesses our lives immensely. For all their sacrifice and efforts in the Kingdom, the saints are in general much better off in their family life, occupation and education than those who do not know God. It seems it is very hard to out-give God. Even when the early Utah Pioneers were in desperate need to lay up food for the winter, Brigham Young admonished that if ever they needed Gods blessings, it was now and they should worship on the Sabbath and leave off from the fields that day.
What sometimes happens, though, as we clutter up our lives, one new commitment at a time, with “wholesome” activities, that suddenly we discover that we have no time or physical energy to put God 1st during the week and even His Sabbath gets overrun with leftover activities and occupations best left for another day. For the adversary to win he needn’t get us to overtly choose evil, he merely needs to get us engaged in one pursuit after another until we are too worn out to serve God. Remember that sacrifice in the days of old meant giving up something desirable; the best lamb, the 1st fruits. The apostles left their nets to follow Him. Jesus in turn called his disciples His friends. To be labeled that by God is a blessing indeed.
To the saints of his time, Alma challenged them to examine their standing before God. This is something each one of us needs to do throughout our lives. His words are provocative:
Alma 5: 26 And now behold, I say unto you, my brethren, if ye have experienced a change of heart, and if ye have felt to sing the song of redeeming love, I would ask, can ye feel so now?
The Gospel is a lot more than just the challenge of new set of things to do. The center is not activities; the circumference is neither leadership nor the path - a set of check boxes. It is Love in your heart and a feeling of desire in your heart to seek God with all your might mind and strength. (See Mark 12:30).
Life has a way sometimes of creeping up and obscuring our perspective on what is truly important. On the job, the field or one social commitment or another, we so easily conceive of ourselves as indispensable. “How can XYZ go on without me?” This is a classic problem with folks like myself. Wisdom teaches, though, that the world will go on and the sun will rise with or without us and the only place where one cannot be replaced is in one’s family and the family of God. There are so many things I wish I could devote myself to, but when circumstances hedge up upon me such that I cannot serve God and Family, then I occasionally have to regroup and bridle one aspiration or another – then refocus on God’s will. Even Jesus himself said, “father, not my will but thine be done”.
Well, [Friend], you are one of God’s great children. May he bless you and keep you on your journey and search for His will in your life.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
A letter to a Dear Friend [Catholic]
Dear Friend
I must say, I have quite enjoyed getting to know you and am always impressed with people like yourself who seek. After all, Jesus, said, “Seek and Ye shall find”
I hope it’s ok that some of your gospel questions were shared with me. I felt you would be kindly disposed to hear a few thoughts from a fellow sojourner. Some years back as a missionary, I was an ordained minister of our Lord and had many opportunities to explain the gospel and testify about our Savior and His Kingdom on earth. This Kingdom is ‘the Church’, you hear about so often. So when one of the LDS youth says something like “I know ‘the Church’ is true.” That’s ‘Mormonese’ for a lot of things bundled together. He is saying, “I know that Jesus is my Savior and is the head of this Church and Jesus guides it directly through his living prophets and perhaps much more. Personally, I like the detail of someone’s testimony as I find “the Church is true” can be a bit vague, but I generally understand it to mean they believe this is Gods Kingdom on earth and contains the fullness of the gospel – thus “Is True” rather than just contains truth.
In today’s pluralistic society, the socialcratic influence from Gods adversary has in the name of tolerance of differences trained up a generation with the inability to judge anything. The adversary would have us believe that there is no devil. This is the basis for the wave of moral relativism sweeping the western world. There is right and there is wrong. This does not mean that one should flaunt ones knowledge and denigrate others in the name of God.
I think you have seen that in a church setting our people share and strengthen one another in word and deed, but in the community are very careful to not offend or put down our Christian or non-Christian neighbors. It is after all the 11th Articles of Faith which declares:
“We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”
Jesus spoke to this non-confrontational attitude when others, even in his own time, began setting up churches in his name. He said:
Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
I myself was raised, in my early years, a member of another faith and I am grateful for the testimony of Jesus and the truthfulness of the Bible I received therein. Subsequently, I have come to know, by experience with the spirit, that God has restored his kingdom to the earth and this is a powerful message to a world starving for direct guidance from God. We believe that one can sincerely pray to God and receive confirmation to that effect. That is why our missionaries seldom do Bible bashing (Study) to “prove” the Gospel. I happen to believe after much study of others faiths, that it is much easier to support our understanding of Gospel principle from the Bible than any other faith, but I did not come to my conviction from an intellectual sparring session; it came via prayer and experience with the spirit. I do not believe this is an exclusive opportunity.
We believe that just as there was a falling a way and loss of authority to act in Gods name prior to Christ birth and that a new prophet was raised up (John) to prepare the way for his 1st coming, that after the death of the prophets and apostles called by Jesus that another falling away and loss of authority to act in Gods name occurred. This falling away was prophesied as well as the restoration in the last days.
2 Thes. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first…
Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.
History is pretty clear that for a substantial time corresponding roughly from 300AD to the end of the “dark Ages” that the Church Hierarchy suffered as predicted. Please note that God did NOT force this, but in general, man rejected the truth.
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Then, as predicted, a time of restoration came to prepare the world for the second coming, just as John prepared it for the 1st coming.
Acts 3:21 {Jesus} Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
You may find this quote interesting:
A Catholic Utterance
In a pamphlet entitled The Strength of the Mormon Position, the late Elder Orson F. Whitney, of the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, related the following incident under the heading “A Catholic Utterance”:
Many years ago a learned man, a member of the Roman Catholic Church, came to Utah and spoke from the stand of the Salt Lake Tabernacle. I became well-acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen languages at his tongue’s end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy. One day he said to me: “You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don’t even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that’s all there is to it. The Protestants haven’t a leg to stand on. For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, there is no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism’s attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the gospel in latter days.”
I know it’s human nature to more readily accept miracles and prophets of ages ago rather than here and now. Even Jesus had the problem, where his own town’s folk could not believe that the local carpenter could be the great prophet much less the messiah.
Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
Eph 1:10 …That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
See also Eph 4: 5, 11-14
Brother Joseph was the prophet of the restoration and the Book of Mormon and the kingdom are the fruits of that Tree. The beauty of this is it can be tested like any good science experiment.
1 Thes. 5: 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Moroni 10:4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost. And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things. And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is. And ye may know that he is, by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore I would exhort you that ye deny not the power of God; for he worketh by power, according to the faith of the children of men, the same today and tomorrow, and forever.
I hope this wasn’t too long. I thought I’d just touch on the big picture. May your search be fruitful.
Your Friend,
Ps Check out the Church web sites:
Lds.org
scriptures.lds.org
mormon.org
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
When God reached out to one of His Sons (of my coming to Christ)
Dear Young Sister,
Normally I’m kept quite busy in my ministry to the youth with only our young men, but occasionally I feel impressed to share a word or two of encouragement to a young lady. From the 1st time we met, I felt there was something special about you. It’s more than your amusing wit and good-naturedness. I think God has some special things in store for this young lady. Generally, you’d have to be on a Mt peak somewhere to hear about my conversion, but I felt impressed to share my testimony with you my young friend by letter.
Not too long ago, when I walked the trail you now tred, I questioned whether the faith of my fathers was more than just a good feeling. I was inundated as a young man with the theology of Darwinism, promoted as the State religion. It was proclaimed loud and trumpeted from the hilltops as truth and 'science', yet the unavoidable conclusions of the states official theology left me empty - a life void of any meaning. Surely there was more? Was I really just a complex of electro-chemical reactions doomed to vanish, never to have consciousness apart from this brief spark. "I think, therefore I am", a philosopher once mused. I contemplated; Doctors have found the command centers in our brains, but have they found the commander? It was so confusing; was it just dross and empty nothingness or eternal progression and trails of glory. If only the God of Heaven would come and speak to me! How could others claim they knew and it be so dark and murky for me?
Strange that as I searched for Him, I could not remember His visitations in my life. How quickly I has forgotten and dismissed His intervention one morning. Hadn't I, like Samuel of old, heard a 'voice' and somehow 'known' to slip to the right as I sped through a blind intersection. By inches, like the other foolish youth who ignored prudence and stop signs, I had cheated an early grave.
I had forgotten that I was 'impressed' to step back from working on my car as a branch came crashing down where I had just stood. Oh how easy it had been for me to dismiss the healing at the hands of my father or the warmth of singing a hymn...
I once heard Patriarch Bateman say:
“People go one of two ways: they either make effort to conform their lives to their convictions or they abandon their convictions to conform to their actions. We cannot long tolerate a significant disparity between our actions and our convictions.”
I guess that was really more to the point. God had in fact reached out on several occasions to touch my life and in several cases miraculously preserve it as a youth, but the longer my actions led me in another direction the easier it was for me to dismiss my convictions. I came to some crux in my 18th year, where I could no longer live with the schism between my actions and my former convictions. The newness of my relationship with my girlfriend was over and so I was coming off the hormone high that tended to blind my judgments.
Autobiography excerpt 1975: “So it was that I found myself alone in my apartment; free from anyone, wondering is this all there really is? In this quiet moment, I remembered the words "prove me herewith", "ask and ye shall receive", "trial of your faith", "if it is a good fruit", "...with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of all things", "if you lack wisdom".
So I did. Steeped in the rules of scientific investigation, I knew that conclusions with no experiment were just opinions. I took Alma's and Moroni's challenge and read their writings with open and real intent. I followed the procedure, fasted and each night for several weeks I spoke to the heavens. As I read 2Nephi33 I was struck by a compassion for others that I had never known and the scene opened to my 'eyes' where I saw through his eyes and felt what he felt with such impact as I had never imagined. That night I dreamed a dream wherein I was on a trail that crossed a stream. I slipped and was swept into the stream. The banks where slippery with mud and the water dark, filthy and cold. I reached for the only stable hold and found it an iron rod. Even with one hand clinging it was not enough and I realized I had to hang on with both hands. So I held on for all my strength as the current buffeted and dragged at my body. I woke up and 'knew' that it was me Nephi was weeping over and the filthy water the life that was sullying my future and that if I was to survive, I’d have to hang on to the words and commandments of God with both hands and place both feet on the path.
Continuing: Somehow God had reached down to speak to one of His. Overnight, I had a new heart and conviction to follow the rod leading to life. I was born again as a new creature with compassion for others and a clear vision as to the trail I would walk. I sought out the Bishop to clear the stumbling blocks and set my life in order. I asked my folks if I could return home as I prepared myself to serve God. I think that was quite a surprise, but Mom let me know that I’d have to help out and follow the rules. That was never going to be a problem again.
I have never looked back except to with clarity to see God’s hand in reaching out and preserving His son. I used to wonder, "Come on, how could Laman and Lemuel see and angel and blow it off", but hadn't I done the same. I came to know that only those who want to know, who seek truth with all their hearts, will find it.”
One thing I did have going for me was that the girl I was dating was supportive and really relieved that I was taking a new direction in my life and our relationship. We had been together so long that I really didn’t know whether this was “the” girl for me or whether it was just habit. I was in a rut. That I wanted to serve God at this time worked out well to resolve that question. They say it only takes 4 weeks to break a habit. For sure 2 years would do the job. I told her that I was going to go on a mission for God and that she should see other boys while I was gone. If we still thought each other Mr. & Mrs. Right when I came back - then great. After all Jesus had said:
Mark 10:29 Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
The young lady honored God as well and bid me well. There is nothing so strengthening to a man as a Godly woman and nothing that will tear a couple apart as disunity in faith. Believe me, if you can’t start out marching in the same direction, you certainly wont end up in the same direction. ( ps. I did write often and keep her picture on my desk while in Norway and Oh Yes, that young lady is now my dear wife)
Your Friend,
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
A Different Jesus? The Christ of the Restoration by Robert Millet
By Robert Millet Dean of Religion BYU
Listen to this Audio Windows Media recording
Is God by any other name still God?
In the previous essay, “What’s all this stuff about ‘One God’ anyhow” we discussed the classic Trinitarian concepts of God and introduced the doctrine of the godhead as an answer to the confusion. We should not be too hard on the doctors of religious philosophy though as God has revealed his nature variously and his followers, prophets and translators of the written word have not always been too careful to elucidate on the various terms used.
To make matters worse yet for the student of the word trying to navigate Father, Son, Lord, Jehovah, Elohiem etc, these word can and often are used in one context or another to describe each or all of the members of the Godhead. It should be noted that that word is only used three times in the new testament by writer who left so little explanation that scholars wrestling with the same topic 2000 years later.
The introduction of the Book of Mormon at one look extensively uses the language of Trinitarians, such as on the title page, that “Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God”, and in the 3 witnesses testament, “to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God.” Uniquely and true to the character of many of the Book of Mormon prophets, they break the ice, to some extent, and explicitly describe why Jesus might in some contexts be called the Father and in other places “the Son.”
Mosiah 3:8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.
Note that he uses the term Father, but then follows up with Creator
Mosiah 7:27 And because he said unto them that Christ was the God, the Father of all things, and said that he should take upon him the image of man, and it should be the image after which man was created in the beginning; or in other words, he said that man was created after the image of God, and that God should come down among the children of men, and take upon him flesh and blood, and go forth upon the face of the earth—
Mosiah 15:1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
Frankly, this is only partially helpful, but the key takeaway is that the terms ‘Father’ and ‘Son’ are clearly allegorical or at best contextual. As a grandfather, I am still also son of my father. In engineering business, I could be considered the father of designs and programs; so we try and understand the context of such broadly available terms.
One of the doctrinal gems brought to life from the Joseph Smith vision was the obvious separateness of the members of the Godhead. In other writ, such as
Matt. 27: 46 … My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
From ‘Why hast thou forsaken me?” we can logically deduce their separateness.
It is yet more explicit when Jesus is baptized and a voice from Heaven attests –
Mark 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
In the Joseph Smith Vision, he sees the Man of Holiness behind the voice “this is my beloved son” and speaks with the risen Lord.
JS_H 1:17 When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
He later cleared up all doubt:
D&C 130:22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
Of course this all makes a lot of sense, with his calling us his sons, and Jesus being called the 1st fruits of many brethren and Adam being listed in the genealogy record as the Son of god in a long line of Son of’s. It really is amazing how the truth sets us free to understand easily what has baffled the scholars for so long.
Do I wish that our present understanding and clarity of usage was prevalent and consistent amongst the ancient writing – you bet, but at least I have the knowledge God granted us about his nature to go back and better understand what the ancient prophets were trying to communicate. In some cases, it is just not possible to tell which member of the Godhead is being referenced, but as many of these writers declare – it is after all “One God.”
Lastly and principally, there are those who pray to Jesus, and there are those who pray to the Father of Jesus. Jesus said this:
John 16: 23 … Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. … 26…I will pray the Father for you:
See also 3rd Nephi to see how Christ interacts with the people and then in turn prays to the Father in their behalf.
Some, often make such a to-do over the directive to pray to the Father that they forget that they are really praying Jesus to bring their petition to the Father and that it will be the Holy Ghost who will in all likelihood bring the word of the Father or the healing influence of their advocate, Christ back to them.
1st Jn. 2: 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
It was after all Jesus who hung on the cross and suffered in Gethsemane and it is He, through the instrumentality of the Holy Spirit, that heals you.
Alma 7: 12 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.
I pray that Jesus through the Holy Spirit can heal you and bring your petitions to the Father; that in so doing you may indeed have a personal relationship with Jesus our Savior. It will not be academic, it will be personal as it is he through the Holy Spirit which He sends that heals you and knows your troubles, the physician that knows you like no other and has the right healing balm for your soul.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
Society’s Interest in Promoting Marriage strictly between a Man and a Woman
While it is true that some individuals have always deviated from the familial pattern (man & women) established by God, it is the only pattern blessed by Him.
It is a great and magnanimous society that tolerates the sinner. That was one of Jesus' points, yet let us not forget His follow-on admonition, "Go and sin no more!". While all of us sin, only a fool promotes sin. What society sanctions, society promotes.
Society has a legitimate interest in promoting the kind of family relationships it thinks are best for society's long term interest. Marriage, then, is a system of laws bundling privileges and responsibly for the promotion of the kind of stable family units that it deems most conducive for nurturing children.
That is why divorce may be made deliberately cumbersome or why states may outlaw plural marriage. Society gets to choose how best to promote it's own future.
If folks want to commune together, they can. IF they want to set up partnerships, joint accounts and mutual living wills and powers of attorney, they can. The law does not interfere. However, if it is to be argued that society has neither interest nor right to promote through its laws human behavior and relationships, then how can any conceivable or inconceivable relationship be disallowed? Why not 2 men and their 3 wives? After all they seem loving and committed! (BTW this is not ridiculous slippery slope logic; polygamy lawsuits are already before the courts)
The constitutional provision of freedom of association does not require a universal and arbitrary approval and promotion. The society of man is not a free-for-all with no limits. Those limits come from God. If we are just electro-chemical reactions, then dog eat dog, we could blow it all up tomorrow, Columbine, so-what, if there is no God nor eternal soul in man, then it’s just noise in the cosmos. But, there is a God, and He established what is right and what is wrong even if we can’t see the meaning in it and that is the only justification for any civility and order we enjoy. This is in no way establishing a religion to acknowledge that our justification for right and wrong, mercy and justice derives from that revealed knowledge.
We must not promote what God has forbidden. We must not send the message to our land that such a massive departure from Gods pattern for families is an acceptable "alternative". It is not.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
What do the scriptures say about homosexuality?
(All scriptures are KJV unless noted otherwise)
The Bible is
not an authority unto itself. It is the "Manufacturers Operating and
Maintenance Instructions" and "Warranty" that is provided to us
for the care and maintenance and successful operation of our bodies, including
our minds.
The authority lies with God who created us and gave us the Bible as
instructions and as a recorded example of what happens when we do
"right" by his standards (and receive blessings and eternal life) or
do "wrong" by his standards (and receive cursings and eternal death)
(See Deu. 30:15, 19).
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and bevil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to awalk• in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.
All specific mention of homosexuality in scripture shows it to be condemned by God. The first is the account of Sodom and Gommorah, (from which it became known as "sodomy") and in this account it is the only "sin" mentioned. (Gen. 18:20,
And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
19:1-13,)
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, 7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
In the middle of a list of sexual sins including incest, adultery, fornication,
bestiality, and child sacrifice by burning them alive, it is specifically
condemned in Lev. 18: 6-30 (22)
22 "You shall not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is an abomination."
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any
beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast
to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the
nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
The penalty in the days of Moses was death, Lev. 20:13.
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
It is condemned in Deu. 23:17-18,
17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel. 18 Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.
(the "price of a dog, in the context of "the hire of a whore", refers to male prostitution).
It is also mentioned as "wickedness" in Judges 19-21: 19:22-23
Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of
the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat
at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring
forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.
And the man, the master of the house, went out unto
them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so
wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.
It is called "sodomy" in 1 Kings 14:23-24 and is referred to as an "abomination" associated with idle worship and orgies (groves).
For they
also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and
under every green tree.
And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all
the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of
Israel.
Asa is declared righteous for "taking away the sodomites out of the land" (killing them or driving them out) and for putting an end to idolatry, 1 Kings 15:11-12.
And Asa
did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, aas•
did David his father.
And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that
his fathers had made.
Lesbians appear to be included in the term "sodomites" as seen in 2 Kings 23:3-7.
7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.
Paul, a prominent teacher of Christianity, shows that both homosexuality and lesbianism were still condemned after Christ's death and resurrection, Rom. 1:22-32.
22 Professing
themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like
to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of
their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served
the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their
women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman,
burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is
unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which
was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God
gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not
convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness,
covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity;
whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of
evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection,
implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are
worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
He also mentions it in a list of sins in 1 Tim. 1:10.
9 Knowing
this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient,
for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of
fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them
that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for
perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Those who do not repent of these sins shall not inherit the kingdom or eternal life. 1 Cor. 6:9-10
"Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous , nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.".
There are some "churches" and some "ministers" who accept homosexuality. Some refer to certain scriptures regarding David and regarding Christ and express their opinion that these men had homosexual relationships with others. This requires reading meaning "into" the scriptures. It also requires that one ignore all the above scriptures as they cannot be explained away.
Please note that we are not condemning anyone here. Every man or woman condemns himself by his own wrong choices. We didn't write the Book, we just point out the obvious. We are all free to choose blessing or cursing, life or death. We encourage everyone to choose eternal life with God’s blessings.
In Plain English, God Speaks about Homosexuality
The Bible is very clear on the subject of Homosexuality. In Leviticus 18:22 it reads
Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.
I'm sure by now you've heard people using the excuse for their sexual desires as "being born gay". Let's address that right now. Why would God create a person with homosexual desires when his laws call for death because of it? If they're not born with this tendencies, then where do these feeling come from? Let's look to the Scriptures.
Romans 1:21-24 reads:
“They knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused...”
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their heart desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. You see that sin causes these unnatural feelings within us. You must stay close to God to overcome these feelings! 1 Corinthians 10:13 reads:
“Remember that the temptations that come into your life are no different from what other experience. And God is faithful. He will keep the temptation from becoming so strong that you can't stand up against it. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you will not give in to it.”
I urge anyone struggling with Homosexuality to go to the Scriptures for guidance. God is very clear where these feeling come from. Pray for forgiveness, for God can and will forgive you. Hebrews 8:12 reads:
I will forgive their wrongdoings and I will never again remember their sins.
And if you're wondering what will happen if you choose not to follow God's word, read 1st Corinthians 6:9-10
Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals... none of these will have a share in the Kingdom of God.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
The Heart of the Gospel; the Cause of Zion
Back to Top of the Document http://peoplespassions.org/peoplesfaith/essays/Whats_all_this_Stuff_about_Religion_anyway.htm
Letter to our youth Sunday school class,
We often hear and sing of Zion as “the kingdom” but today I want to discuss the underpinnings; the key that makes Zion possible, Zion - the pure in heart. I’d like to talk about another form of heart health and I promise not to collapse in a heap during the discussion!
Moses 7: 18 And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them. 19 And Enoch continued his preaching in righteousness unto the people of God. And it came to pass in his days, that he built a city that was called the City of Holiness, even Zion.
I recall a church leadership meeting where someone spoke something very hurtful to me. I took immediate offence at the cutting remark, but somehow managed to bite my tongue as I recalled Jesus’ advice for just such an occasion:
Math 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
This individual and I had a long friendly association and I was determined to not lose him over this slight. So right after the meeting I corralled him and told him how that comment had hurt me. I did not rail at him, I just told him how I had been wounded by that comment but that I valued him too much as a friend and brother to let something like that fester and damage our relationship. I suppose if he had been a lesser man he could have rubbed it in even more, but instead he profusely apologized and begged my forgiveness. We continue to value that friendship.
From Enoch (and again in 3rd Nephi) I learned of large groups of people that did achieve on a sustained basis this utopian principle in human unity. It doesn’t mean there are no conflicts, but it does mean that folks learned to disagree without being disagreeable and forgiveness was tendered to each other as oft as it was requested of God. We know then that it is possible and achievable and Jesus gave us simple guidelines, though I will readily admit easier said…
This striving to be one then is central to the “cause of Zion”. God declares as much:
D&C 6: 6 Now, as you have asked, behold, I say unto you, keep my commandments, and seek to bring forth and establish the cause of Zion;
D&C 82: 14 For Zion must increase in beauty, and in holiness; her borders must be enlarged; her stakes must be strengthened; yea, verily I say unto you, Zion must arise and put on her beautiful garments.
What then is referred to by “her beautiful garments?” I think he is referring to the outward effects, the visible effects of a Godly life. How we treat each other – those we interact with on a daily basis. Like the study of chemistry – it’s the nearest neighbors that count in the reactions. What kind of reactions are we engendering?
D&C 82: 19 Every man seeking the interest of his neighbor, and doing all things with an eye single to the glory of God.
D&C 38: 24-25 And again I say unto you, let every man esteem his brother as himself.
DC 38:27 Behold, this I have given unto you as a parable, and it is even as I am. I say unto you, be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine.
If we truly believe that we are God’s children then we see each other as worth saving; our squabbles worth resolving and our friends and family worth redeeming. We have all seen or at least heard of neighborhood squabbles; the noisy dog, the fence line 6” off the mark etc and how these disputes often turn into long term animosities that never are resolved. Why? Because, we do not esteem our neighbor as ourself. The relationship is abandoned as seemingly not worth the investment. That is the crux of almost all failed marriage relationships and friendships. This simple principle admonished by Jesus is at the root of every convict – even international wars.
Even pious men of God on one level can fall prey to this all too human flaw:
D&C 64: 8 My disciples, in days of old, sought occasion against one another and forgave not one another in their hearts; and for this evil they were afflicted and sorely chastened.
Jesus showed us by example how his arm was ever extended to recover the sinner. We should be as anxious to recover our friends and family and even our enemies.
I shared a mission story of a gal I met at a doorstep who spoke with some bitterness how she as a new 17 year old convert had been unjustly accused of stealing a purse at a branch activity. She was so wounded and embarrassed that she left the church association and for 10 years lived a difficult life in the world. I am reminded of the Lord’s counsel:
DC 82:21 And the soul that sins against this covenant, and hardeneth his heart against it, shall be dealt with according to the laws of my church, and shall be delivered over to the buffetings of Satan until the day of redemption.
I told her that I could arrange for a church court to air this grievance against this branch president, but advised that the court is a court of love intended to reconcile the offender and that a prerequisite would be her willingness to forgive this man’s insensitive and unjust rebuke. If she could do that I would arrange the court. She stood stunned for a moment and then tears welled up in her eyes and she just shook her head, “Neh, Det blir ikke nudvendi” (No, it won’t be necessary.) She returned to fellowship and brought quite a few friends and relatives with her including her mother who later became the Relief Society President.
Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. 14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. 15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
It is key that we not abandon our friends and family over disagreements, anger and disputes. Can we so easily claim kinship with God as His son or daughter and yet discard others when they offend or do not measure up to our view and standard? Jesus cautioned:
DC 82:23 Leave judgment alone with me, for it is mine and I will repay. Peace be with you; my blessings continue with you.
Math 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
He reminded us again of the God like characteristic of forgiveness in his famous prayer:
Math 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
We need to see these admonitions in light of our divine potential as the literal children of God and recognize that to claim that birthright God would have us receive of His Spirit which gives us the inner strength to express to our family, friends, neighbors and even our enemies those Godlike attributes:
Math 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Math 5: 43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Notice, my youthful friends, that what appears at 1st to be some magnanimous outreach on your part is at one level the spark of Divinity that God wishes you to cultivate, but on another level it is just good, even selfish advise that allows you to live in greater harmony, to retain your love ones, friends and neighbors as though they are all your very flesh and blood. Imagine that? Actually treating those around you as if you really believed God that we are all his children.
Imagine.
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
PS – a small historical tidbit
"According to the account given by George A. Smith,
while the Saints were in Far West, Missouri, 'the wife of Thomas B. Marsh, who
was then President of the Twelve Apostles, and Sister Harris concluded they
would exchange milk, in order to make a little larger cheese than they otherwise
could. To be sure to have justice done, it was agreed that they should not save
the strippings (to themselves), but that the milk and strippings should go all
together.....Mrs. Harris, it appeared, was faithful to the agreement and
carried to Mrs. Marsh the milk and strippings, but Mrs. Marsh, wishing to make
some extra good cheese, saved a pint of strippings from each cow and sent Mrs.
Harris the milk without the strippings. A quarrel arose, and the matter was
referred to the home teachers. They found Mrs. Marsh guilty of failure to keep
her agreement. She and her husband were upset and, 'an appeal was taken from
the teacher to the bishop, and a regular church trial was held. President Marsh
did not consider that the bishop had done him and his lady justice for they
(that is, the bishop's court) decided that the strippings were wrongfully
saved, and that the woman had violated her covenant.
'Marsh immediately took an appeal to the High Council, who investigated the
question with much patience, and,' says George A. Smith, .....'Marsh.....made a
desperate defense, but the High Council finally confirmed the bishop's
decision.....This little affair,' Brother Smith continues, 'kicked up a
considerable breeze, and Thomas B. Marsh then declared that he would sustain
the character of his wife even if he had to go to hell for it. The then
President of the Twelve Apostles, the man who should have been the first to do
justice and cause reparation to be made for wrong.....went before a magistrate
and swore that the 'Mormons' were hostile towards the state of Missouri. That
affidavit brought from the government of Missouri an exterminating order, which
drove some 15,000 Saints from their homes and habitations..... What a very
small and trivial thing--a little cream over which two women quarreled. But it
led to, or at least was a factor in, Governor Boggs' cruel exterminating order
which drove the Saints from the state of Missouri."
("Ensign" Magazine, May 1984, p. 83.)
Forgiveness and the Power of the Atonement by Jordon & Steve Marquis
- or- Smuggling Sinners in a Town Near You?
Abstract:
Many, perhaps even most individuals, both contemporary Christians and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints deduce the atonement in terms of payment - “He paid for my sins” or “He paid the price for my sins”. This common approach taken by itself, as it is often done, leaves a rather hollow view of God’s mercy, making the Savior out to be a smuggler of sorts; running interference before God the Father to smuggle us “saved” sinners into heaven. A common phrase has “God seeing Christ’s righteousness rather than our filthy rags which is expressed by the lamentation in Isaiah:
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities,
Can simply declaring Jesus make you compatible with a heavenly existence? If sinners, subject as we are in our current state, do so easily fall short of the glory of God, then how can we ever be brought to live in God’s presence without making an instant hell out of it? While many describe the atonement in terms of payment made for some cosmic sin debt, another voice addresses the atonement as making you “one” with God. How is that done?
Heaven is not filthy
Paul spends much of his writings denouncing as futile any claim at living the human condition sinlessly save Christ only.
Romans 3: 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Nephi corroborates this view and notes that God’s existence is fundamentally incompatible with sin. Lest heaven become hell, things that are filthy must remain in another place, Jesus called it outer darkness, others - variously hell, though that term itself has many context dependent connotations.
1 Nephi 15:34 But behold, I say unto you, the kingdom of God is not filthy, and there cannot any unclean thing enter into the kingdom of God; wherefore there must needs be a place of filthiness prepared for that which is filthy.
1 Nephi 15:35 And there is a place prepared, yea, even that awful hell of which I have spoken, and the devil is the preparator of it; wherefore the final state of the souls of men is to dwell in the kingdom of God, or to be cast out because of that justice of which I have spoken.
John shares this view seeing also in vision the glorious end state of the justified and the sorry state of the damned:
Revelations 22: 11 He that is unjust let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Judgment in terms of scales; your Good vs. Bad deeds
It takes little self introspection to be appropriately concerned – even alarmed at the rigorous standard and the obvious conclusion that none can measure up; everyone will be found wanting. I say obvious, but in the early days of Christ’s Church in Jerusalem, Paul vigorously contended with the common notion that one’s good works would be weighed against one’s sins and a judgment cast based on the tip of the scales. Perhaps this stems from God’s past dealing with Israel such as with Saul, David, and Tekel where clear judgments were cast based on specific performances.
Daniel 5:27 TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
Lest one be tempted to argue that New Testament understandings regarding the judgments of God deviated from Old Testament views in accounting for the works and deeds of man, notice John’s clear vision:
Revelations 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Emphasis added)
So it is hardly without precedence in the cultures of both Jews and Gentiles to see God’s judgment in term of scales. However, Paul of the New Testament, pointed out that since no one can fully keep the commandments the individual was left in a state of some sin and as such unable to attain the perfection needed to dwell with God in heaven. For all his clarity of the importance of the expressed faith, James also backs up Paul’s contention of our fallibility vs. the rigorous standard of perfection.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Whole religious movements have been built up using Paul’s writings to disabuse the parishioners of the “scales of justice” notion; by arguing the payment/justice approach, however, they fail to entirely leave behind the “scales” entirely which introduces a new set of problems.
Judgment in terms of scales; Jesus’ Righteousness vs. Your Efforts
There is a curious line in a popular movie where the protagonist implores to the officer, “I really really would like not to go to jail” to which comes the reply “Someone’s got to go to jail!” (National Treasure) This notion, carried in the religious discussion, sees the atonement as paying off a debt to some cosmic sin account to wit that some eternal scale of justice remain in balance.
Contemporary Christians as well as Mormon circles often paint the atonement as this grand scale of justice wherein Jesus “makes up the difference.”One book, “Believing Christ,” – tells a story about a child desiring to purchase a bike. She comes up well short of the price but the remainder is given freely by her father. This allegory is intended to show God’s mercy – making up the difference, balancing the scales; “Someone has to pay…”.
If, I commit a crime, shall the law be satisfied if they hang my brother, if he be willing to sacrifice? What of the debt – the scales of justice; are they balanced? Am I reformed? What then is important; reformation or payment of a cosmic sin debt to a real or abstract keeper of “Justice” or both? Alternately, consider the concept of the royal whipping boy. It was likely argued that the young prince would have mercy on the boy abused on his account and would alter and improve his behavior out of his sense of mercy for the scapegoat. That is a rather weak concept, though, as primary mechanism for how “by his stripes we are healed” …
Faith VS Works
This notion of the atonement as a payment of a sin debt is at the root of the whole faith vs. works debate that has occupied theologians and whole religious movements.
Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Seeing the atonement as simply or exclusively a payment to balance the books, as it were, can lead some to the view that no outward expression of faith has any bearing on salvation or sanctification. The debt payment view, promoted by many Christian denominations, flies in the face of many of Jesus’ pronouncements about ones walk. Clearly the action of the atonement, if it is effective, changes the man. Rather than re-debate Faith-Works, we will focus on a concept of Faith that Works. This concept is a keystone.
What is Personal about “Being Saved?”
Paul argues that when one truly believes, his heart is given over to God and while his members might yet sin, his heart, given to God does not want to sin. Paul is acknowledging a key point that the very nature of the earth experience, with the veil between us and our prior experiences with God and the many temptations, handicaps us, but for such a man as is truly given over to Christ, he will, though never attaining in this life a state free of sin, yet attain the heavenly prize; those earthly handicaps accounted for in God’s judgment.
Galatians 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
This implies both accommodation as well as results, though, since if one is no longer readily given over to sinful lusts, then it should indeed show in the outward behavior and if not, one might rightly wonder to what extent if any the Spirit of God has actually effected. Some religions use terms like “Saving Faith” to try and describe sincere devotion to God and the working of the Holy Spirit in return. Consider Enos’ experience as he was “Born Again”:
Enos 1:4 And my soul hungered; and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul; and all the day long did I cry unto him; yea, and when the night came I did still raise my voice high that it reached the heavens.
Enos 1:5 And there came a voice unto me, saying: Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed.
Enos 1:6 And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore, my guilt was swept away.
Enos 1:7 And I said: Lord, how is it done?
Enos 1:8 And he said unto me: Because of thy faith in Christ, whom thou hast never before heard nor seen. … go to, thy faith hath made thee whole.
Enos 1:9 Now, it came to pass that when I had heard these words I began to feel a desire for the welfare of my brethren, the Nephites; wherefore, I did pour out my whole soul unto God for them. (Emphasis added).
This is really a key point, that “Saving Faith” necessarily leads to a change of desire and desires to behavior and was the thrust of the letter from James perhaps in clarification to some of Paul’s writings saying:
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only.
I want to again emphasize that the atonement (being saved) has to do with healing us and justifying us to God. Justifying in the sense that Paul uses, does not mean to excuse or to explain, but is used as a carpenter might use the term – to straighten, to align to a reference. In this case the reference is Christ himself.
1 Pet 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
Isa. 53: 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
If Christ then is the good physician, how is he able to turn the hearts as Enos experienced? In what are perhaps the most insightful statements ever promulgated into this great mystery, the miracle of the atonement, we read from Alma:
Alma 7: 11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people.
Alma 7: 12 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities. (Emphasis added)
Notice the connection – He experienced – therefore. People talk glibly about “Personal Savior” but this explains how and why. In this grand unfathomable experience, where time and space and events collapsed into a singularity, where each life experience was reproduced and experienced vicariously, occurred in such a real and graphic way that it caused God himself to blanch:
DC 19:18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.
Alma continues his admonition to take hold/advantage of this great event to be born again as a new creature and by so doing lay hold of the power to actually effect a new level of mastery over sin, selfishness and all the other vises of the world.
Alma 7: 13 Now the Spirit knoweth all things; nevertheless the Son of God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance; and now behold, this is the testimony which is in me.
Alma 7: 14 Now I say unto you that ye must repent, and be born again; for the Spirit saith if ye are not born again ye cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye may be washed from your sins, that ye may have faith on the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world, who is mighty to save and to cleanse from all unrighteousness.
Alma 7: 15 Yea, I say unto you come and fear not, and lay aside every sin, which easily doth beset you, which doth bind you down to destruction, yea, come and go forth, and show unto your God that ye are willing to repent of your sins and enter into a covenant with him to keep his commandments, and witness it unto him this day by going into the waters of baptism.
Then Alma continues and implies a striving for excellence and perfection not unlike Jesus’ own admonition to his flock:
Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Reconciling these two angles is the matter at hand in our discussion. Continuing with Alma:
Alma 7:16 And whosoever doeth this, and keepeth the commandments of God from thenceforth, the same will remember that I say unto him, yea, he will remember that I have said unto him, he shall have eternal life, according to the testimony of the Holy Spirit, which testifieth in me.
Alma implies a high standard – keep in mind who he is speaking to; individuals that will achieve the equivalent of “Power Steering” to use a modern analogy, in their efforts to follow Christ. Paul on the other hand was speaking largely about the Jewish fixation on certain performances that could and often were executed without any devotion or love. Paul was focused in these writing on the condition of the heart and freely acknowledged that even if the heart was right before God that the conditions of the flesh and the world, could still cause us to occasionally do wrong, but he also indicated elsewhere that one day, that Perfect Day would come.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
How is it Done, Lord?
The payment for sins, then, was the price Christ paid to become that physician, and faith in Christ is not simply belief. It is a complete entrusting of oneself to Christ and acceptance of his power, his will, and through the workings of the Holy Ghost his works. If we truly say “yes” to Him and let His Holy Spirit into our hearts, we will never be the same. His love touches our hearts and we find our desires turn to our own improvement and the welfare of all we meet and even those we have not yet met. His Spirit takes up residence within us, giving us the strength (power steering) to do what we could never do on our own.
Alma 36:17 And it came to pass that as I was thus racked with torment, while I was harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ, a Son of God, to atone for the sins of the world.
18 Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am bin the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.
19 And now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more; yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more.
20 And oh, what joy, and what marvelous light I did behold; yea, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain!
21 Yea, I say unto you, my son, that there could be nothing so exquisite and so bitter as were my pains. Yea, and again I say unto you, my son, that on the other hand, there can be nothing so exquisite and sweet as was my joy.
Alma turns his life around and become a great missionary – reminiscent of the Saul/Paul saga.
Paul attempts to separate the heart from the actions and he emphasizes the heart first; trusting that if that is right, despite our failings, the godly actions will follow. This reconciles how Jesus could still declare, “None of those who cry out, ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of God but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.”
True biblical faith (some say “Saving Faith”) then is not idle. It aligns our inner self with Christ- we are justified to Him and if truly so, we are born again as new creatures that cause us to strive to walk in God’s ways. For all the times Paul is quoted for “faith, faith, faith,” I, who have that faith, am most impressed by Paul’s additional admonitions to back that faith up with running a solid race and “to fight the good fight.” 1Tim6:12
True it is that Paul wrote about being "saved by grace," some twenty-one times, but he was also identified as one who stressed the importance of good works and deeds over eighty times. Looking at this with a personal perspective, Paul wrote as he did knowing that if the atonement was truly functional in my life, my heart would be healed by the one physician intimately familiar with my wounds and He would send the Holy Spirit with exactly the balm I need to help me turn my actions godward.
Our works, then, become aligned to our faith or you could say our faith is justified to or as James says, “by your works.” A Catholic, Marcellino D'Ambrosio Ph.D, writing in “I Believe - The Heart of Catholic Faith” coined it well saying, “So really, it’s not faith or works. It’s faith that works.”
Jesus set a high standard.
Mathew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect (completeness), even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
A better translation for “perfect” (completeness) goes well with the famous slogan of the US Army, “Be All that You Can Be.” So it is that when the veil of this life is lifted and we are brought before God to be judged, he will see our perfect hearts having been healed by Christ by His Holy Spirit of the desire for sin and grant us life Eternal in His kingdom. Our actions will be viewed in the context of the handicaps of the flesh. He will judge our lives in light of “all we can be,” the weakness of the flesh and the full of sin world environment we are saturated in. When we are brought before God, we, who have given ourselves over to God and had Christ’s healing balm of Gilead applied to our souls, will be stripped of the earthly handicaps and our perfect heart will express itself in the perfect members or our resurrected body.
1 Jn. 3: 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Our rewards in heaven will be as the bodies Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial; the sun the moon and the stars. Our works will certainly play a role in the mansion He has prepared, but only those who have had their hearts cleansed and transformed (born again) will partake. Whether in this life or in the spirit state prior to resurrection, one must come to the Physician and be healed or truly be weighed and be found wanting.
1Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Conclusion
Peter continues to explain that the Good news is this: that for all mankind, whether dead physically or currently (in a spiritual sense) we can be justified; i.e. aligned to Christ in our spirits, the flesh being accounted for in God’s mercy and wisdom. Truly, that is good news indeed.
1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
God, then, through the Atonement of Jesus, has made it possible to be cleansed of our sinful nature and desires. Not a whitewash of our surface garments but a change in the inner man. The circumstances of the flesh interfere with our best efforts. This is understood, but for all Paul wrote about being saved, Paul clearly points out that this is not some game where we can fool God as to the character of our heart. A good heart cleansed of the desire to sin will drive its members toward perfection. Good works will naturally abound in such a man.
Galatians 6:7-9 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not
Likewise we read in John that our walk will reflect the condition of our heart, imperfectly yes, but cleansed of the desire to sin, our heart (or inner spirit) will drive its members toward perfection. That is the evidence of the “New Man” The blood of Christ cleanses of sin, not by some mystical debt exchange, but by a real change, a healing and perfecting of the inner man.
1 John 1:5-7 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
There is a tight relationship with the walk and the cleansing; this is not just a payoff of some sin account. When we are cleansed, the healing changes our walk and that is the proof of the effectiveness of the conversion or new birth; you begin to walk the talk.
1 Peter 5:10 The God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
Jesus will not be smuggling sinners over the wall to heaven, nor will he be placing his finger on the scales of justice to fool the Father. Truly God expects us to see the Christ when He comes, because we, His children have the capability and the power through the heeling balm of Gilead to have become like him in heart and to a greater degree than we can often imagine - even in deed.
Jordon & Steve Marquis Back to Top of the Document
So, Just Who Exactly Do We Pray To?
In the name of Jesus…
Jesus gave explicit permission – even a commandment that we could and should address our petitions to His and our Father in Heaven.
“pray ye like this….”
Critics of the restored gospel fault the saints for giving lip service to Jesus just as we fault the sectarians for fabricating from their sincere desire to serve - the authority to so act.
There is some validity to each claim. In all practical matters the saints are faithful to God’s commandments and sincerely strive to lead the kingdom by inspiration and revelations from the HG. So if we pray to the Father and the HG does most of communication, save a personal visitation from Jesus himself, what active role does the savior play? Listening to the oft mumbled and rushed epilog of a common LDS prayer, one might think “not too much – at least in prayer.”
In the Sacrament service, one contemplates the Saviors sacrifice and ones walk, but for many the relationship is one of feta comply rather than an active ongoing relationship. Such is not contrary to LDS doctrine, quite the contrary as we have previously shown, but culturally, the atonement is seen by some, perhaps many, as a payment long ago rendered to which one strives to be worthy of. In the essay “Forgiveness and the Power of the Atonement” by Jordon Marquis, considerable discussion is extended on the topic, but in this brief note, we will just address the element of formal prayer.
I’d like to advance that it is not simply a technicality to invoke Jesus’ name. He is not simply a stamp to the envelop addressed to the Father. Rather he is the interpreter, the advocate, the physician, who consults with the Father and from His personal experience in that garden and the tree returns with the cure delivered generally through the agency of the third member of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit.
So when you pray, remember that it is the intersession and conjoined effort of the Godhead that your prayer is heard and answered. How an individual visualizes that is not hard-coded in doctrine. So when we teach prayer let us not be correcting of those who see the Lord Jesus as an integral part, but rather, use the Savior’s words gently inviting us – permitting us to direct our petition to His Father and our Father.
John 14: 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14: 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
John 16: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Col. 3: 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, ado all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
In the name of our Lord Jesus
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
Is Any Faith Equivalent? McKay with commentary from Steve Marquis
Teachings of President McKay:
President David O. McKay was always kind and respectful to people of other faiths, and he praised the good work of all churches. However, he was firm in his testimony that the fulness of the gospel is found only in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. To teach the importance of obeying the principles and ordinances of the restored gospel, he spoke of membership in the Church as citizenship in a great kingdom:
“All churches and all creeds contain some good which lead toward the kingdom of our Father; but to become a citizen of that kingdom everyone must conform to the requirements made by the King. Indeed, there is only one way in which entrance into the Church of Jesus Christ may be obtained, and that is the way marked out by Jesus Christ, the Lord. ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.’ (John 14:6.)
1 Ne. 14:10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
Indeed since there are so many churches in the strict sense of the word, that I believe Nephi’s use of “church” in this sense goes beyond a particular organization. Indeed I believe he uses the term in the same sense as the savior spoke when queried about “others” who attempted Christian practices, but who were not acting under the direction of Jesus, “
Mark
9:38 ¶ And John answered him, saying,
Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and
we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man, which shall
do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part
41For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name,
because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his
reward.
Luke 9:49 ¶ And John answered and said, Master, we saw one
casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not
with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is
not against us is for us.
So if God can take such a charitable attitude toward “casual followers” and if in the end one is judged based on what you know then why all the effort to spread the gospel since God will justify each man according to his circumstances anyway?
2 Ne. 9:26 For the atonement satisfieth the demands of his justice upon all those who have not the law given to them, that they are delivered from that awful monster, death and hell, and the devil, and the lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment; and they are restored to that God who gave them breath, which is the Holy One of Israel.
Mosiah 3:11 For behold, and also his blood atoneth for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them, or who have ignorantly sinned.
Indeed the same question might have been posed regarding the “chosen people” and even more narrowly the tribe of Levi.
Since there are so may people on the earth and so few in the kingdom – let alone in the good “church” it should strike one with awe that you have been chosen out of this chaos of competing philosophies to carry the light of truth in an otherwise dark corner of the world.
Teachings of President McKay:
.” (D&C 76:22–24.) “That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God
Those who have such assurance in their hearts accept him as “The Way, the Truth, and the Life,” as the one safe guide in this perplexing universe
It is also a task of Herculean proportions to see to the task of ordinances for all. For while Jesus was very generous about who he called His friends, he was sharp as a sword in delineating the entrance requirements for the Kingdom.
Repentance and good works followed by baptism.
Teachings of President McKay:
“The means of obtaining citizenship in the Church of Jesus Christ are very explicit; so clear, indeed, that it is surprising that so many seemingly intelligent and well-read people … [assume] that they can gain entrance by other and various means.
“There is only one who has the right to prescribe the means of human salvation. Surely he spoke not meaninglessly when he said what is necessary to citizenship in his kingdom.
“Note how explicit are his words: ‘Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.’ [John 3:3; italics added.] In explanation of this seemingly enigmatical saying to Nicodemus, the Master continued:
“ ‘Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.’ [John 3:5; italics added.]
“Evidently Peter, the chief Apostle, attached significance to this requirement as an essential means of gaining not only citizenship in the Church, but also salvation in the kingdom of God, for, when the multitude pricked in their hearts cried out, ‘Men and brethren, what shall we do?’ [Acts 2:37] he answered and said:
“ ‘Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.’ (Acts 2:38.)
What is the difference between belief and faith?
Teachings of President McKay:
What we need today is faith in the living Christ, which is more than a mere feeling, but a power that moves us to action—a faith that will put purpose into life and courage into the heart. We need the gospel of application. 8
The Church does not accept the doctrine that a mere murmured belief in Jesus Christ is all that is essential to salvation. A man may say he believes but if he does nothing to make that belief or faith a moving power to do, to accomplish, to produce soul growth, his protestation will avail him nothing. “Work out your own salvation” is an exhortation to demonstrate by activity, by thoughtful obedient effort the reality of faith.
Repentance:
What is the difference between belief and faith? I once had a billboard decrying the immoral positions of a certain politician running for office. A certain main claiming the Christian faith vandalized and tore up my billboards because he did not think I should disparage sinners because God would justify all “saved” sinners.
2 Ne. 28:8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.
Teachings of President McKay:
It is inconceivable to think that anyone can even question the essentiality of repentance. Every principle of the gospel when studied carefully reveals a harmony with truth that is simply sublime. Each seems to be all comprehensive, either leading into or embracing other principles. Thus, faith in a perfect being, inspiring one to live righteously, seems to include repentance.
John Wesley’s mother
“Would you judge of the lawfulness or unlawfulness of pleasure? Take this rule: Now note—whatever weakens your reason, impairs the tenderness of your conscience, obscures your sense of God, takes off your relish for spiritual things, whatever increases the authority of the body over the mind, that thing is sin to you, however innocent it may seem in itself.”
Teachings of President McKay:
It is not uncommon for people to have remorse for mistakes made, for follies and sins committed, but to have no turning away from such frailties and evils. They may even feel penitent; but “penitence,” we are told, “is transient, and may involve no change of character or conduct.” Repentance, on the other hand, “is sorrow for sin with self-condemnation, and complete turning away from the sin.” It is, therefore, more than mere remorse; “it comprehends a change of nature befitting heaven.”
Bottom Line here is that the Kingdom of heaven can accept repentant sinners because we will no longer be sinners - having our hearts turned away from sin. It is common for some Christians to assert that God the Father will see Christ’s cleanliness and not our filthy rags. In other words Christ is smuggling in sinners acting as a shield. We assert that God the Father will see Christ’s cleanliness and ours having been washed in his blood and kept clean though the working of the Holy Spirit who helped change our nature. We will see his face because we will be like him. What a difference!
Brother Steve Back to Top of the Document
A Historical Context for understanding the ‘Mountain Meadow Massacre’
By Steve marquis
In the PBS special on the Mormon church, the “Mountain Meadow Massacre” section was poorly represented by conjecture and reports from 1800’s eastern papers rather than court facts, diaries and 1st hand contemporary accounts. They drew from late 1800’s "thriller" magazines such as a story entitled, "I Survived the Mountain Meadows Massacre," an account written under the name of Elizabeth Baker Terry, a 3 year old child survivor. However, Mrs. Terry did not write the story, it was taken from an interview with her as an older woman by a professional writer. This is an example of the classic “sources” that antagonists of the church have drawn from since there are no eye witnesses nor a single confession to draw from.
The popular, sensational; eastern press accounts of the 19th century that PBS drew from placed the context in isolated fanaticism and the motives in revenge and hatred. After a 150 years, PBS referenced the same editorials as prima fascia facts. It was such a sad event, no-one in the church leadership wants in the least these days to be seen as defensive and anything other than apologetic and so the worst interpretation of the events are promoted and no rational explanation is proffered leaving the conclusion unanswered that “Mormon fanaticism” was the root problem and by extension if then, why not now.
The Church’s original position was that the Indians did it. That may well be fundamentally true, except it is equally undeniable that John Dee Lee and the militia he was steward over were definitely involved in the tragedy but in a way that makes the true history stranger than fiction.
From the 1st hand primary sources we learn of a time of an approaching war machine with 25% of all US federal troops marching on Utah itching for a blood fight, a land and people responding under martial law and a distant outpost with standing orders to at all costs avoid another conflict with the Indians as the territory could not afford a 2 front war. The territory had just suppressed a 10 year bloody Indian war and it was Brigham’s promise to defend the Indians as an ally and that the white people would freely share of their food and cattle.
On a war footing , the Mormon settlers in this remote outpost had cached almost all the settlement’s surplus supplies in the mountains in anticipation of a pending gorilla war effort. As such they were in no mood nor position to share with passing settlers; particularly so for these who, when denied supplies, overtly declared themselves enemies of the Mormons. With the refusal to assist in resupply, these passing embittered settlers were emboldened in their animosity perhaps ultimately sealing their fate. Reports circulated that these Missouri/Arkansas immigrants had, on the way through the settlements, harassed and openly bragged at being part and hand at the Prophets assassination and (this is key) threatened to raise an army and return from California to fight the Mormons from the South.
Under this context, this obnoxious group of settlers traveling though Southern Utah bound for California was reported to have also initially refused the Indians food, poisoned a well, and murdered one of the hungry Indians. When finally some meat was offered the Indians, other deaths occurred including at least one white settler who was reported to have died from handling the poison meat.
The treatment and manner of the murder so enraged the Indians that they gathered a group of tribes together and attacked and held the offending wagon train for a number of days to the point that the wagon train was nearly out of water and suffering considerably. Being well armed, however, they managed to continue to inflict casualties on the Indians. The Indians went to the head of the nearby town militia and demanded of Bishop John Dee Lee (JDL) that Brigham's promise of mutual protection take the form of revenge on the men of the wagon train or they would re-ignite the Utah-Indian war. There were one or more visits from white settlers with the Indian siege which some interpreted as variously collusion or even instigation – even masquerading – but the treaty of mutual protection\assistance with enemies is a more likely scenario.
It is apparent that from the 1st hand accounts that militia leaders were conflicted as to how to proceed. JDL was between a rock and a hard place and he sent a truly heroic express rider all the way to Salt Lake riding Pony Express style all the way – non-stop to Brigham and back with a message to do no harm to the members of the wagon train (possibly) allowing the Indians the goods only as compensation, but he arrived back with BY’s message a precious few hours too late…
What took place in those preceding hours can only be comprehended under the context of the duress of threatened war from the Indians and the wagon train settlers themselves and a threatened southern war front should the settlers proceed.
JDL came up with a plan to get some or possibly all of the settlers out. There are really only three likely possibilities from there.
- Either he agreed with the Indians to execute the men and let the Indians do the dirty work with the women and older youth and then carried out that plan OR
- He agreed with the Indians to present the wagon train men to be executed by the Indians but once the slaughter started the Indians expanded the slaughter as was their custom in war to destroy all but the younger children OR
- He only feigned to do (1 or 2) hoping to somehow break them free.
- What is NOT a possibility is that JDL and the pious Mormon settlers with no other instigation than being called names had suddenly became blood thirsty vengefully lying, callous, hatchet wielding butchers of men, women, youth and even children; even in the manner of the killings, it is simply inconceivable given their cultural background.
Despite what any yellow press sensational rag of the day printed nor what PBS repeated over a hundred and fifty years later, only scenario #2 listed above is remotely possible, though #3 is what JDL held as true to his dying day.
JDL to his moments before the firing squad saw what happened as a tragedy, but neither he nor any other Mormon settler ever admitted to murder. For a long time the church protected him and all involved. President Buchannan issued a blanket pardon for all acts during the “Utah War,” but reneged on the Mountain Meadow trials claiming the action unrelated to the war. In the 1st trial, all participants but one were acquitted. JDLs trial ended in a hung Jury with 1 person voting guilty. 10 years or so later, with the church under intense persecution and the eastern presses unceasingly demanding blood for blood, Brigham, JDL’s adopted father, removed the churches’ protection and essentially offered up JDL as the sacrificial lamb at another trial. That was a bitter pill for JDL who voluntarily returned from hiding to be immediately found guilty. He wrote bitterly of his abandonment and went to the firing squad claiming he did no wrong. His final words were simply, “Aim well boys.”
Only in the context of the war does this take on a new light that they would have agreed (truly or otherwise) to help the Indians. While it is clear that JDL’s militia escorted the settlers from the besieged wagon train, and they may have executed the men, there is no actual evidence that JDLs men fired even one shot - none of those involved ever admitted to their dying day to have killed the men let alone killing, butchering and hacking up the women and children with knives and hatchets.
On the other hand, given the circumstances of war, and the enemy status of the settlers themselves, it is conceivable that they did execute some of the men but there is neither direct evidence nor eye witness testimony to that end. Conversely, it is inconceivable regarding the savage treatment of the women and children. However, the fate of the women and in particular - which children were killed vs. which were saved, is quite consistent with the practice of the Indian’s warfare at that time.
This much is certain. The “Young’s wild rampaging mob of vengeful Mormons” theory wallowed in by enemies of the church just doesn’t hold water, but the context of the imminent war on a lonely isolated and threatened outpost makes all the sad pieces fall into place.
Ps: The reader is no doubt wondering how I came to this narrative. This synopsis was not intended as a documented thesis, but I can recommend the inquiring reader an exceptionally frank, scholarly, well documented treatment, “The Mountain Meadows Massacre” by J Brooks. My conclusions are my own. You might want to start with the last chapter “Cause and effects,” positioned just before the almost equally impressive appendix.
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